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Post by jeroen on Sept 23, 2009 17:42:10 GMT
According to COI, Arctic temperatures have rocketed up over the last few days: ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.phpCould anyone explain how all the air North of the 80th parallel could suddenly rise by what appears to be about 7 degrees in the space of a few days? Looks like a mistake to me. If you look at the other years you can see that it is very common. There arent that much station or buys to measure the temp.
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Post by jeroen on Sept 23, 2009 17:46:05 GMT
If Purinoli is right, we should see an extremely large gain in Arctic ice recorded over the next few days. or the other way around. Whe already had the refreeze and then the temps go up.
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Post by matt on Sept 23, 2009 19:10:01 GMT
LOL! Of course Matt would say that the evil ice fairy is manufacturing thin first year ice while diabolically selectively melting only multi-year ice in order to fool the common man. ROTFLMAO! Actually, it's skeptics slicing thick multi-year ice into thin sheets and thus artificially increasing ice extent.
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Post by woodstove on Sept 23, 2009 19:15:28 GMT
LOL! Of course Matt would say that the evil ice fairy is manufacturing thin first year ice while diabolically selectively melting only multi-year ice in order to fool the common man. ROTFLMAO! Actually, it's skeptics slicing thick multi-year ice into thin sheets and thus artificially increasing ice extent. nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/S_timeseries.png
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Post by mondeoman on Sept 23, 2009 22:40:11 GMT
To my untrained eye, that looks like a 1/2 million jump - impressive
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Post by woodstove on Sept 24, 2009 12:08:41 GMT
Here is a comment by Per Welander on wuwt.com:
"Nothing unusual about the 'DMI-spike' in the Arctic. It is all about winds. A stalled low pressure pushed in warm Atlantic air northeast of Greenland. The build up of cold air in this area was temporarily stopped. The temperature will go down in a couple of days."
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Post by medic1532 on Sept 24, 2009 23:39:21 GMT
Checkout the cryosphere global seaice chart we are within 500000 km^2 of "normal" if the antarctic holds or keeps increasing at its current pace and the arctic follows a normal growth then I think we may see normal to above normal global seaice again. Just my 2 cents Medic 1532 ???
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Post by matt on Sept 25, 2009 3:51:10 GMT
Next comes volume estimates. Any predictions on how 2009 will compare to 2008 and 2007? I'll start. I think 2009 will be higher than 2008 and lower than 2007.
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Post by icefisher on Sept 25, 2009 3:53:12 GMT
Next comes volume estimates. Any predictions on how 2009 will compare to 2008 and 2007? I'll start. I think 2009 will be higher than 2008 and lower than 2007. Produced by the Hansen Mouseketeers. . . .looking forward to it.
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Post by itsthesunstupid on Sept 25, 2009 6:35:45 GMT
Next comes volume estimates. Any predictions on how 2009 will compare to 2008 and 2007? I'll start. I think 2009 will be higher than 2008 and lower than 2007. That makes a lot of sense. Let me give it a try . . . higher than 2005 but lower than 1998. About the same as 2009 but equal to equal to 2006. Okay, for real - I think the sea ice in the Arctic will hit its fourth straight year of increase in 2010. Of course, that increase will end up not being an increase by some wierd calculation perpetrated by the reality deniers. ;-)
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Post by woodstove on Sept 25, 2009 13:50:08 GMT
Next comes volume estimates. Any predictions on how 2009 will compare to 2008 and 2007? I'll start. I think 2009 will be higher than 2008 and lower than 2007. Show me 100 years' worth of volume data, and we can have a conversation. Your sky-is-falling pronouncements all happen to be connected to a single passage of a pendulum, one that has been swinging back and forth for millennia. The cool thing is that with each passing year of the pendulum swinging in the opposite direction, NSIDC's scare-mongering (and that of its acolytes) becomes increasingly comedic. God knows I need a good laugh from time to time. ;D
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Post by kiwistonewall on Sept 25, 2009 21:46:16 GMT
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Post by neilhamp on Sept 26, 2009 8:23:10 GMT
Thanks again Kiwi Sorry to be pedantic 0.75 Million sq.km
This is an area 3 times the size of New Zealand or for those back in the "old country" 3 times the area of the UK
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Post by hilbert on Sept 26, 2009 16:49:03 GMT
So, I'm glad that the Arctic sea ice has recovered some more this year, but when I examine my reasons, it's probably at least as much that I hope that it may provide a respite from the clamorous cries of the AGW people as for any reason that low Arctic ice might actually cause some truly bad things (sorry, I mostly discount the concern over polar bears--I think that they will be fine in any event).
However, I'm somewhat at a loss to understand the arguments from any side as to why the recovery might have occurred (or happened in the first place, from a skeptic's viewpoint). Decadal oscillations? ENSO?
Pointers would be appreciated.
Thanks, hilbert
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Post by nautonnier on Sept 26, 2009 17:27:21 GMT
So, I'm glad that the Arctic sea ice has recovered some more this year, but when I examine my reasons, it's probably at least as much that I hope that it may provide a respite from the clamorous cries of the AGW people as for any reason that low Arctic ice might actually cause some truly bad things (sorry, I mostly discount the concern over polar bears--I think that they will be fine in any event). However, I'm somewhat at a loss to understand the arguments from any side as to why the recovery might have occurred (or happened in the first place, from a skeptic's viewpoint). Decadal oscillations? ENSO? Pointers would be appreciated. Thanks, hilbert There are many different cycles that can affect the Arctic - the PDO and AMO both can do so and the PDO was positive now turning negative the AMO was positive now apparently turning negative. The polar vortex (possibly also tied to the ocean heat content and the large scale convection) has changed significantly since 2007. Each of these oscillations combined at some kind of 'beat frequency' in 2007 together with some extreme winds that acted to blow the ice out of the Arctic. (You never know perhaps the dotted lines cut through the ice periphery by icebreakers making paths for kayakers and cargo ships looking for the NW passage broke the land anchors for the ice sufficiently for it to be blown away ) From what I have read if the PDO and AMO go negative together things could get decidedly 'parky' for northern Europe.
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