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Post by sigurdur on May 19, 2013 20:14:54 GMT
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Post by sigurdur on May 19, 2013 20:01:52 GMT
Where is this at Karlox? That is a huge increase in greenhouses. |
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Post by sigurdur on May 19, 2013 20:00:16 GMT
Ya know, I am amazed that I have made it to 60. What with all the food borne illness etc......wonder how I keep missing these? Could it be that we know how to cook in our older ages??????
Unbelievable Karlox that you can't use eggs.......
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Post by karlox on May 19, 2013 18:41:29 GMT
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Post by karlox on May 19, 2013 18:40:09 GMT
US was the homeland of current extensive agricultural production. In Spain in desertic Almeria (South-East corner), greenhouse industrial hydrophonic grows boosted production (like 3 tomatoes harvest per year) and provides nearly half of Europe´s demand on many veg products. Now this model is spreading south to Morocco. Don´t you think that for many vegs this is the only way to boost production for an expansive demands of food supply? How is US doing in such type of farm bussiness? (though I suppose that well) I chatted with a family last week who run a greenhouse in the area and sampled their tomatoes. Nice. I should have asked them how many harvests they average. It would seem in Spain they have an abundance of sun but a lack of water, the opposite of the PNW.   |
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Post by karlox on May 19, 2013 18:35:12 GMT
Visit California its simply sensational what is produced and there's plenty of room in the area for intensification and expansion. I would also suggest that a temperature rise or fall will be taken in its stride. the last bastion of the doom brigade is water. You can already hear the chat, oh well we may have plenty of energy but we are short of water. So we know that water usage per unit of production drops with the lift in CO2 so that doom is averted, thank god we are going to survive. A big disappointment for the grim brigade. In addition to that I will list the ways water will not be an issue. 1. If you have energy you can desalinate. shale gas is in the realms of 100years infinite, clever people will build something by then. 2. There is a new desalination technology in final development, one third the energy required, and there will be many more even better than that. 3.glass houses reduce water usage dramatically per unit output. They are getting cheaper to build. There will be heaps of them. 4. The GM boys are developing saline tolerant crops or more correctly more saline tolerance it opens up water sources and water management flexibility. Etc etc etc Let everyone rest easily stop frightening the kids with black magic stories about a doomed future it will be fantastic a pity we can't all live as long as our kids to see the stuff they will. I am more than happy to know about new costless desalination tecnology: that could make a big difference! But I do care and worry about overexploitation or polution of our acquifers... Certainly Glass-Houses Grows are very efficient in the use of water, and somecases same water is being re-used... now new techiques, as the use of insects to avoid overdosis of pesticides, are being equally applied... that´s a good track to be followed as well... Yet, how many billions are still subject to open-skies corn cereal and rice harvest in the world? |
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Post by karlox on May 19, 2013 18:19:31 GMT
The EU actually did something so stupid???????? Why does this not surprise me. They just want to fail anymore....... As with all these things it is not the overt publicized action or regulation that is the purpose of what is done. These are akin to the Cass Sunstein 'nudges' that we are seeing a lot of recently. Though I miss last part on Cass Sunstein ´nudges´, I believe and understand that this sort of thing´s being a byproduct of Bureaucratic Machinery and pressure of big processed-food industry lobbies. If we had some cases of salmonelosis THEN ban fresh eggs (???) same with oil... instead of reinforcing independent health inspection on food chain (creating some jobs, by the way) we must pay for beaurocrats so big corps can get our money more easily (and without a choice!) |
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Post by karlox on May 19, 2013 18:09:52 GMT
Neither fresh farm-eggs can be legally used in our most patriotic and popular dish "tortilla española" (spanish omelette = potatoes and onion and eggs) and this has been so for some years now... so restaurants have to use an egg derivate product -like CDS´s  which is either a liquid or powder pasteurized eggs byproduct  |
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Post by codehacker on May 19, 2013 14:41:50 GMT
As the world is projected to grow from the 7 billion to 9 billion in the coming years food production will have to increase. In my state, WA state, I don't see where they are going to do a vigorous expansion. There are some places that can support growth but growth costs money. Further climatic change, hot or cold, will stymie attempts to utilize these other areas. The reason we grow where we do now is convenience and suitability. Assuming the climate is usable will we have the money to bear the energy costs? I know what diesel costs at the pumps retail and wonder what the cost per gallon is for someone like Sig who buys in bulk? Now add a dollar, two, three to that cost and it affects his bottom line. Sig also mentioned he's spending $158 per acre this year for fertilizer. Last I heard there was a shortage and prices would probably head higher in years to come. Assuming his farm is 1000 acres, the average is 1300, he spent $158,000 this year on fertilizer. Good Lord! Bottom line it looks like food prices will head higher and the world's poor are going to pay for it but how?? Maybe communism's time as come? The big collective farm idea eh comrade? www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpS4fCF4tqoUS was the homeland of current extensive agricultural production. In Spain in desertic Almeria (South-East corner), greenhouse industrial hydrophonic grows boosted production (like 3 tomatoes harvest per year) and provides nearly half of Europe´s demand on many veg products. Now this model is spreading south to Morocco. Don´t you think that for many vegs this is the only way to boost production for an expansive demands of food supply? How is US doing in such type of farm bussiness? (though I suppose that well) I chatted with a family last week who run a greenhouse in the area and sampled their tomatoes. Nice. I should have asked them how many harvests they average. It would seem in Spain they have an abundance of sun but a lack of water, the opposite of the PNW. |
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Post by sigurdur on May 19, 2013 14:03:26 GMT
Neil:
Does "History repeats" come to mind?
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Post by sigurdur on May 19, 2013 14:01:10 GMT
The drought of 2012 in the USA and the production that was there is a large scale example of what higher CO2 does.
Water was the main issue, yet yields were surprisingly good. The yield models of the past need to be tweaked for this more efficient water use. It is a very important issue. Stoma counts show the story, but you never hear this in the AGW literature.
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Post by nautonnier on May 19, 2013 13:59:54 GMT
The EU actually did something so stupid???????? Why does this not surprise me. They just want to fail anymore....... As with all these things it is not the overt publicized action or regulation that is the purpose of what is done. These are akin to the Cass Sunstein 'nudges' that we are seeing a lot of recently. |
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Post by sigurdur on May 19, 2013 13:53:46 GMT
The EU actually did something so stupid????????
Why does this not surprise me. They just want to fail anymore.......
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Post by nautonnier on May 19, 2013 13:51:17 GMT
As a follow on from the post above - I saw this in a blog from UK/France. You may find it interesting although the 'humor' is a little English and the language is not for the sensitive  "What else are they manipulating? == Answer: FOOD PRICES
Too much food costing too much money is killing people
Sector by sector, the truth is at last trickling out: ICAP, Libor, Gold, Currency values, oil…..none of them are natural markets, all of them are being ‘directionalised’….as in, manipulated for the good of the few – and never for us. But the most important commodity we have probably represents the most criminal scam of the lot."LINK -- The Slog - Saturday EssayI would be interested in what the farmers on here think of the entire essay. Very interesting link. My opinion: Think about the paradox of our evolution as an advanced technological civilization: on the one hand industrial extensive farming permitted both access to billions to food plus the exponential growth of the world population; on the other hand the mechanics of global de-regulated capitalism addresses our world to a scenario of extreme vulnerability, where our daily food depends on a few markets in the hands of the few, add to this the speculative financial derivative products that pervade our global economy, being western low-mid classes first victims of this Greed System. (We, the Base of the Pyramid) The EU has just brought out a new 'ruling' for restaurants on the use of olive oil at the table. It will no longer be allowed in jugs or containers on the table, it must be in sealed labeled bottles or sachets. This is for health you understand  See Guardian article - link. Of course what this really means is that the local olive oil producers and farmers cooperatives cannot provide restaurants with olive oil as they would need a bottling and labeling capability. Similarly, Michelin starred restauranteurs who had been going to small high quality olive oil producers and contracting with them now have to deal with the agribusiness producers instead. Each of these incremental regulations have the same 'Common Purpose'. |
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Post by nonentropic on May 19, 2013 9:54:09 GMT
Visit California its simply sensational what is produced and there's plenty of room in the area for intensification and expansion. I would also suggest that a temperature rise or fall will be taken in its stride.
the last bastion of the doom brigade is water. You can already hear the chat, oh well we may have plenty of energy but we are short of water.
So we know that water usage per unit of production drops with the lift in CO2 so that doom is averted, thank god we are going to survive. A big disappointment for the grim brigade.
In addition to that I will list the ways water will not be an issue.
1. If you have energy you can desalinate. shale gas is in the realms of 100years infinite, clever people will build something by then.
2. There is a new desalination technology in final development, one third the energy required, and there will be many more even better than that.
3.glass houses reduce water usage dramatically per unit output. They are getting cheaper to build. There will be heaps of them.
4. The GM boys are developing saline tolerant crops or more correctly more saline tolerance it opens up water sources and water management flexibility.
Etc etc etc
Let everyone rest easily stop frightening the kids with black magic stories about a doomed future it will be fantastic a pity we can't all live as long as our kids to see the stuff they will.
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