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Post by icefisher on Jul 9, 2010 11:46:35 GMT
I have just applied for a patent on a technology that will be earth shaking. . . . . Dark ray panels.
These panels are double sided gathering a total potential of up to nearly 740 watts/meter squared 24/7. They are more than 3 times more efficient that solar panels on a square meter basis. Solar panels only can net an average of 200 watts/meter/squared.
But the dark ray panels average 350watts/m2 on the space facing surface and because they are designed to be elevated off the ground so that the sun at angle can hit the ground under these panels the underside will gather an average up towards 390 watts of primary dark wave radiation. The really good part of all this is that due to arctic amplification the efficiency of the underside of the panels increases as you increase latitude delivering energy where it is direly needed. At the equator where the warmest part of the day is directly overhead the panels while not be delivering energy quite as efficiently but if positioned correctly will deliver strategic shade where it is needed the most.
The key deal here is you can gather all the ground based solar rays absorbed from incoming solar without penalizing the top side dark ray gathering.
This is made possible by Rayleigh scattering of the dark rays so the dark rays you will be gathering back and pumping watts into your electric car with come from all parts of the sky.
For eons mankind has tried to break the barrier of generating energy out of seemingly nothing and finally this product comes to the market at just the right time to save all of mankind from impending doom.
For those skeptical about generating energy out of nothing you should note carefully that it really isn't nothing because if the entire sky covered with these panels the underside won't work.
But that is not a realistic problem to worry about and if you get your panels today you will be gathering your neighbors SUV generated CO2 back radiation and selling it back to him.
Long before the entire sky is blotted out of these little energy manufacturers the fossil fuel industry will be but a memory!!!
But in the event it did happen in your area because of your neighbors competing with you. . . . not to worry because your dark ray panel will still be gathering 350watts/m2 of back radiation and you will be laughing all the way to the bank!
I sense a Nobel Prize out of this!
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Post by steve on Jul 9, 2010 11:55:05 GMT
I suspect that at the moment you are getting more energy from psychedelic rays
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Post by icefisher on Jul 9, 2010 12:00:01 GMT
I suspect that at the moment you are getting more energy from psychedelic rays What! You aren't really saying 350 watts per meter squared in back radiation is nothing but a psychedelic hallucination are you?
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Post by steve on Jul 9, 2010 12:17:25 GMT
No but I am really saying your grasp of the second (and probably first) law of thermodynamics is a little shakey. If your panel is full of liquid nitrogen, I expect you will gather some of the 740 watts. But it will then warm up and you will start to lose as much as you "gather". Which means you are no longer "gathering" anything. I had a row recently with someone who wanted to use an (electrically powered) ground-source heat pump to generate electricity, so I'm up for this argument
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Post by icefisher on Jul 9, 2010 15:58:57 GMT
No but I am really saying your grasp of the second (and probably first) law of thermodynamics is a little shakey. If your panel is full of liquid nitrogen, I expect you will gather some of the 740 watts. But it will then warm up and you will start to lose as much as you "gather". Which means you are no longer "gathering" anything. I had a row recently with someone who wanted to use an (electrically powered) ground-source heat pump to generate electricity, so I'm up for this argument OH you simply don't understand the process Steve. We are protecting our panels with an IR transparent polymer film that the underside of which is coated with an IR reflectant that causes the film to perform like one way glass. IR enters through the film but when it attempts to exit it hits the reflective surface and is trapped. Conductive heat losses are limited via an argon vapor gap. Thus this system essentially imitates the greenhouse effect of the atmosphere itself but our reflective coating actually narrows the IR window from our own atmosphere. Thats what is so ingenuous about it. Heat accumulates inside in a never ending process in essence creating a tipping point and uncontrollable warming on the surface of our IR voltaic cells which then . . . .well I am not going to tell you everything Steve. . . .I don't need instant competition and the expense of a lawsuit to protect my patent. But let just say it produces a lot of electricity. Its important in operating these panels to ensure good electrical connections as without having good electrical connections the runaway greenhouse effect will continue to increase the heat in the panel and increase the output voltage. In not too long of a period of time not being plugged in to the electric grid the panels will overload electrical circuits will begin to arc in displays not unlike lightning and unfortunately the plastics will eventually melt or burn from the excess heat they are generating with no good connection to draw off the energy. So we recommend to users that in the event of a connection failure say an auto hitting a power pole that safety equipment be maintained in the form of wet blankets to block as much incoming IR as possible and maximize evaporative cooling. It is strongly suggested that great care be employed in grounding these devices as they simply cannot just be carried around in the back of your car safely. We are planning our production as we speak. Steve mentions liquid nitrogen and it is going to have a role in the factory where we assemble these units and also in the delivery trucks that bring the to your site. Even under extreme cold these panels produce prodigious amounts of energy so we have "green" delivery trucks that utilizes the energy being produced even down to near absolute zero and bleeds it off for running the electric motors in the delivery trucks.
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Post by trbixler on Jul 9, 2010 16:12:38 GMT
I get it, all we need to do is further harness the demon and the power will be to infinity and beyond (to coin a phrase).
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Post by icefisher on Jul 9, 2010 16:29:24 GMT
I get it, all we need to do is further harness the demon and the power will be to infinity and beyond (to coin a phrase). You got it. Steve is just a man of soooooo little vision and breadth of understanding. He thinks tipping points should be limited to non-anthropogenic punishment for the incompetent and ill-conceived plans of mankind when all that is needed is for man to note how it works and harness it. Real understanding drives innovation. Make my electric car an Escalade please!
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Post by throttleup on Jul 9, 2010 21:02:19 GMT
icefisher, I like your idea!
Maybe you could sell some to the CRU crowd...
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Post by icefisher on Jul 10, 2010 12:10:10 GMT
icefisher, I like your idea! Maybe you could sell some to the CRU crowd... Preliminary tests are scheduled shortly and we are expecting some really UNREAL results from these little buggers. A slight tweak on the photovoltaics and we are going to be capturing sunlight as well as the dark rays. Potentials are with the non-reflective surface is an average 24/7 input average of 200watts solar, 390 watts outgoing IR, and the real coup d'grace . . . .350 watts returning IR (from other properties within about 20 miles that do not implement this technology) for a total daily average of 20kw per one meter panel for nearly 5 times the efficiency of ordinary SW only solar panels. Return on Investment will still approach 4 to 5 times because these panels will only be slightly more expensive to manufacture than ordinary panels. We have adopted some improvement suggestions and will be mounting these panels on a bent pole so that the panel can be optimally adjusted in accordance with the angle to the sun to avoid shading the ground below it. This will limit us to a maximum effective ground coverage of about 40%. However this still provides a total doubling of efficiency over ordinary solar panels. Overall our calculations show we can achieve a level of 40% panel coverage over the roof of a facility. Combined with a photovoltaic conversion rate of 65% and a grid electricity payout of 40 cents per "green" kilowatt the numbers are staggering in their implications. A small manufacturing firm will be able to return approximately $7/sqft of facility roof space per month. This will easily pay their rent as well as provide all their power needs, including electrically recharging employee vehicles and delivery trucks potentially resulting in nearly a zero carbon footprint for the value added portion of their business all the while returning a tidy profit. These figures are based upon average global climate at the 45th degree line of latitude. Improved performance can be expected at lower lines of latitude and in locations affected less often than average by heavy cloud cover. Likewise less performance on average can be expect at higher degrees of latitude though some locations further north may exceed the average by virtue having less than average cloud cover. Further due to arctic amplification of the greenhouse effect this technology will prove to have even higher levels of efficiency in the higher latitudes than solar. We do need some capital to get this a venture going however. Initial capital outlays to build facilities to serve expected demand are quite large. So to that end limited partnership shares are going to be made available. It will be first come first serve.
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Post by trbixler on Jul 10, 2010 12:30:16 GMT
Do you have twitter and facebook links? These panels might get full government support as they go viraly explosive. Obama might put them in the need know basis. Press conferences with Gibbs hammering a world policy.
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Post by excalibur on Jul 10, 2010 13:05:30 GMT
Yeah but because its black it will create heat and will contribute to Global Warming.
Its not allowed without the proper taxation.
Come back when you have found a White "Eco friendly" panel
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Post by socold on Jul 10, 2010 17:09:18 GMT
So what is this, a denial of backradiation thread? Backradiation from the atmosphere which is directly measured from the surface by pyrometers?
btw one big difference between solar and backradiation is that solar energy is strongly directional whereas backradiation is diffuse.
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Post by matt on Jul 10, 2010 18:25:27 GMT
Dark ray pseudo-solar energy. I guess it takes all kinds, but imaginary technology isn't going to solve many problems.
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Post by icefisher on Jul 10, 2010 19:54:02 GMT
So what is this, a denial of backradiation thread? Backradiation from the atmosphere which is directly measured from the surface by pyrometers? btw one big difference between solar and backradiation is that solar energy is strongly directional whereas backradiation is diffuse. Your so skeptical Socold! Its the back radiation grinding away producing watts 24/7/365 whether cloudy or not the numbers work on this technology today!!! The Rayleigh scattering is a necessity for this to work. Otherwise the panels would be blocking the source for the back radiation. The panels will be gathering back radiation from the entire sky. Trenberth provides us the numbers. 195watts/m2 of incoming solar reaches the ground on average. But backradiation is 180% stronger than solar. Its a huge untapped reserve. And to Matt. Go back and read the technology. The only thing unique here is the actually harnessing of the greenhouse theory. Thats how knowledge advances. First you establish a concept and then somebody else comes and takes advantage of it and makes a fortune. Its quite basic. First you need some victims, then a stampede of the timid, then somebody steps forward with a tool and either shoots the beast dead or throws a harness on it and is forever proclaimed a hero and the salvation of man. I mean imagine the reaction of the first cavemen that woke up to a camel licking them in the face! AGW has just operated a little differently as it has lacked victims but the stampede has become sufficient by itself. This is horribly basic. The problem is solar panels are about twice as expensive as is required in today's financial environment for serious investment. So here we have a situation where instantaneously you can boost efficiency by 280% and just blow by that barrier to investment by a wide margin just using the backradiation. 550watts/sqmeter And by using the ground radiation as well you can choose to go for an even faster ROI by going for 40% coverage but getting 940watts/sqmeter. Of course the closer to the equator you are the better these numbers work out as these are the numbers for the US northern border. And this technology has little to do with AGW. When you point a pyrometer at the sky you measure the temperature of the air at the lense which is 6 feet off the ground. Here you have common ordinary oxygen and nitrogen molecules of an average temperature of 18degC. The only reason they don't give off 390watts/sqmeter is they are not very efficient IR emitters. But it does sum up to 350watts. What happened to Steve. He promised a robust discussion on this topic?
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Post by poitsplace on Jul 10, 2010 23:15:58 GMT
I think this technology has already been patented as part of the back-radiation oven.
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