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Post by steve on Aug 23, 2010 13:52:38 GMT
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Post by graywolf on Aug 23, 2010 17:27:30 GMT
Birch are the first trees in after the ice retreats and help create the conditions for temperate woodlands to encroach
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Post by hairball on Aug 23, 2010 17:48:10 GMT
By Jove! Let us all swear to commit ourselves to the destruction of industrial society to prevent this encroachment of birch trees into our fertile arctic areas.
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Post by icefisher on Aug 23, 2010 17:52:41 GMT
Main Entry: en·croach Pronunciation: \in-ˈkrōch, en-\ Function: intransitive verb Etymology: Middle English encrochen to get, seize, from Anglo-French encrocher, from en- + croc, croche hook — more at crochet Date: 1528 1 : to enter by gradual steps or by stealth into the possessions or rights of another 2 : to advance beyond the usual or proper limits <the gradually encroaching sea>
Who was there first? This like the Israel Palestine war.
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Post by scpg02 on Aug 24, 2010 0:30:12 GMT
By Jove! Let us all swear to commit ourselves to the destruction of industrial society to prevent this encroachment of birch trees into our fertile arctic areas. LOL
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Post by hunterson on Aug 24, 2010 1:15:35 GMT
No trees on Easter island now either......horrid what changes land hungry humans can drive. yes, those wicked humans trying to arrange things to take care of themselves. And of course no other animal ever screws up the environment. But tell us, did you have a point in bringing up Rapa Nui other than as a diversion? Greenland had scrub. Come up with a better dodge, please.
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 24, 2010 1:46:08 GMT
Ok. So now we have established that the Vikings had settlements on Greenland. Also, we have established that the ruins of those settlements are in the current perma frost, and when dug up out of that perma frost the stentch is quit strong. Also established is the glee of the arch dig that these items were preserved so well, being frozen. With those historical points established.....does that indicate to anyone else besides myself, that Greenland was a whole lot warmer in the recent past? And that co2 was not a player in that warmth? Shall we talk about the pebble beach on the Northern End of Greenland as well? And even tho we have had a beach, and human settlements.....the glacier did not melt off. What does history teach us here?
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 24, 2010 3:15:04 GMT
Ok. So now we have established that the Vikings had settlements on Greenland. Also, we have established that the ruins of those settlements are in the current perma frost, and when dug up out of that perma frost the stentch is quit strong. Also established is the glee of the arch dig that these items were preserved so well, being frozen. With those historical points established.....does that indicate to anyone else besides myself, that Greenland was a whole lot warmer in the recent past? And that co2 was not a player in that warmth? Shall we talk about the pebble beach on the Northern End of Greenland as well? And even tho we have had a beach, and human settlements.....the glacier did not melt off. What does history teach us here? Well what very recent history teaches is that AGW proponents will search the web for 'Birch' and 'Greenland' then happily post that Birch still grows there.... Apparently missing the fact that the farm which was the subject of an archaeological dig was under permafrost and it had been running apparently for a few centuries until a glacier extended and pushed sand over the farm's meadows. So the lesson is perhaps that AGW proponents have a selective approach to validation observations?
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 24, 2010 3:38:35 GMT
Nautonnier: I think their reading and obervational skills are a bit lacking. I am sure they are wonderful people and mean well, it is just their skill set is a bit lacking.
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Post by steve on Aug 24, 2010 7:10:19 GMT
No nautonnier
The lesson is quite the opposite. Someone has suggested the idea of birch on Greenland is beyond ridiculous. Rather than believe it I try and check it.
Sigurdur has talked about the fact that since burials were found in what is now permafrost it must have been warmer when they were buried. But there are also reports that houses have been dug out of glacial sand. If there is enough glacial sand to bury a house there is also enough sand to bury a burial ground! When the burials took place the ground may have been more exposed which allowed it to thaw at times. I don't think people realise how much landscapes can change over hundreds of years. I don't know, but I don't just accept what I'm told.
But I don't really have a problem with Greenland having a warm period in and around the tenth century. The earth was closer to the sun during the Northern Hemisphere summer, so Greenland received much more sunshine in summer. The climate of the earth does seem to have been different from now.
But established communities are adaptable and it is reasonable to assume that they would have survived when it got colder. For example, as noted by a greenlandexile, established communities moved to a fish diet which would have sustained them as the climate cooled (ps. I didn't just believe greenlandexile, I'd already seen a paper that studied this). Also people were tougher then - well people can still be tough now, but most of us don't have to be.
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Post by poitsplace on Aug 24, 2010 8:24:32 GMT
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Post by hunterson on Aug 24, 2010 9:48:15 GMT
steve, Greenland today supports no Birch scrub at all. It is far too cold. It was much warmer ~1000 years ago and Greenland's ice did not fall into the sea. Face it: you have been sold a pile of bs by AGW promoters.
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Post by steve on Aug 24, 2010 10:53:38 GMT
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Post by icefisher on Aug 24, 2010 12:32:14 GMT
But established communities are adaptable and it is reasonable to assume that they would have survived when it got colder. For example, as noted by a greenlandexile, established communities moved to a fish diet which would have sustained them as the climate cooled (ps. I didn't just believe greenlandexile, I'd already seen a paper that studied this). Also people were tougher then - well people can still be tough now, but most of us don't have to be. But of course they were lucky an average temperature in excess of 54 degF would have been disasterous.
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Post by hunterson on Aug 24, 2010 20:48:38 GMT
steve, So Greenland supports some remnant colonies of Birch. That is pretty cool. And you have still been sold a pile of bs.
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