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Post by justsomeguy on Dec 8, 2011 16:32:51 GMT
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Post by magellan on Dec 8, 2011 17:32:41 GMT
Then we should expect pictures and breakdown of costs and ROI for your home very soon after converting it to "green" electricity.
I have geothermal heating and cooling. The solar array I'd need to run it would we astronomical in size and cost, not mention completely useless.
If you want to spend several thousands to run a few light bulbs, a refrigerator and TV during peak daylight hours, go right ahead. Just don't expect the rest of us to pay for it.
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Post by glennkoks on Dec 10, 2011 16:49:01 GMT
Did you have the geothermal heating and cooling installed yourself or was it in the house when you purchased it? If you don't mind be asking how much was the original cost and how much is it to maintain and operate? I live in Houston and have considered having one installed but apparently my area is of questionable efficiency for geothermal heating and cooling.
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Post by sigurdur on Dec 10, 2011 19:34:47 GMT
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Post by trbixler on Dec 10, 2011 20:17:04 GMT
If you throw away enough money on a regular basis eventually it will have an impact on your economy. Obama is still president and Lisa Jackson still runs the EPA. Sandusky is in trouble because he did it to children.
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Post by magellan on Dec 12, 2011 1:19:32 GMT
Did you have the geothermal heating and cooling installed yourself or was it in the house when you purchased it? If you don't mind be asking how much was the original cost and how much is it to maintain and operate? I live in Houston and have considered having one installed but apparently my area is of questionable efficiency for geothermal heating and cooling. We've lived at this location since 1990, burned wood/corn most of that time. Old furnace not started in 15 years. No central air, window units only. The geothermal was installed in 2010. This is the model of the furnace: www.waterfurnace.com/products.aspx?prd=EnvisionTotal cost was ~$12,000 turnkey for the best system. It is closed loop. I would have saved about $2000-3000 doing the digging myself. The open loop system is much cheaper if you have a place to dump the water. A friend of mine just had an open loop installed for about $6000. Total cost for operation from November 2010 thru October 2011 for heating/cooling/hot water: $539 We keep the home comfortably warm/cool 24/7. Dropping below $500 wouldn't be a problem. The system is on a separate meter. Highest winter bill: $61 Highest summer bill: ~$52 During summer months, hot water is "free". Maintenance: clean reusable air filter once a month and occasionally dump a 1/4 cup of bleach into the drain pipe to prevent mold buildup. That's it.
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Post by stranger on Dec 12, 2011 2:24:34 GMT
Voltaics are indeed getting cheap. A 24X36 inch 100 watt amorphous silicon panel cost $400 fifteen years ago. Now, excluding the cost of the physical support, an equivalent array is a couple of bucks. And if you wanted to you could print them out on your inkjet printer. But the cost of the cells is only a tiny fraction of the cost of a complete and usable system.
First, there is the matter of protecting and installing the solar array. The output must be fed to a voltage regulator that will maintain a constant DC voltage output, and step that voltage up when cell output falls below nominal minimum bus voltage.
After you get stable voltage, you must then convert DC to AC - or purchase DC only appliances. Something that adds substantially to the expense. So far, we are up to the $2.50 a watt level for panels, regulator, and inverter. Here in the all too sunny Southland, a daylight only 10KW solar array would run about $25,000 or about one sixth the cost of an appropriately sized dwelling, ready to supply 234VAC (117-0-117V or standard single phase AC) to the changeover switch for most of a sunny day.
And then comes the little problem of storage. For most of the world below 40 degrees N or S, you can figure on 6 hours of daylight a day. So you will need 10 KW of panels X 4 to provide storable energy for the rest of the 24 hour day. So, with 40 KW of panels up, and a humongous set of regulators, how do you store "excess" energy?
The only feasible means is the good old storage battery. Long life battery arrays that can store adequate amounts of power to back up a solar array for a week's overcast weather will run about $4 a watt hour or about $672 a watt for a week's backup. And at 10 Kw that would be a slightly pricy - ne'mind. You cannot afford it. Especially not to replace a typical home's $3,400 a year energy bill.
And it is quite likely that you would have to build a well insulated addition to your home to house the batteries and ancillary equipment.
Power companies putting in township size solar arrays can realize some economy of scale, and pump water uphill for low cost reserve energy. But that is not feasible for most of us. Or for anyone who cannot afford 40 cent a Kwh electricity.
Stranger
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Post by sigurdur on Dec 12, 2011 2:38:18 GMT
Stranger: Your numbers are very accurate. I live just south of the 49th parallel. Have adequate supply of land in and next to my yard. Solar pannels were not practical at all. Then looked at wind......by the time was done.....that was not practical either.
Solar/wind on a micro scale are ok as a hobby if you have lots of money. As far as competive costs go.....doesn't work no matter how you cut it.
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Post by lenardob on Dec 12, 2011 16:54:23 GMT
in order for solar to become more popular/installed, the price HAS to come down to under a dollar a watt-more like 50cents (us dollars), stranger i do not know where you are getting your pricing but in the US, the lowest price i have found is 1.30 a watt for a bulk purchase of 4000 watts of panels, individually they are ~300 per retail.
i did find some for about a dollar a watt..but not sure how reputable they/ the product is and i believe you are buying directly from the manufacturer(in china of course)......min order was 10 panels for ~1.04 a watt(plus shipping) if i had the cash i might try for that one
price is still too high when you take into account installation, framing, inverter, grid tie, battery storage,..
i'd need probably 50-60 panels (i have room for them on my roof).
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Post by trbixler on Dec 14, 2011 16:12:47 GMT
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Post by curiousgeorge on Dec 15, 2011 0:59:11 GMT
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Post by curiousgeorge on Dec 15, 2011 1:06:05 GMT
“By channeling our core strength in utility-scale PV systems to markets with immediate need for mass-scale renewable energy our goal is to earn substantially all of our new revenues from sustainable markets by the end of 2014,” Ahearn said. ROFLMAO! What a load of crap. Translation: "We hope we survive, but don't count on it." I doubt these idiots even know what a skyline chart is.
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Post by stranger on Dec 15, 2011 1:41:35 GMT
Lenardob, I am getting my prices from a manufacturer, in bulk. If you cared to, you can buy LaserJet cartridges loaded with PV ink, and print your own on any thin and flexible substrate for a dollar or so a square foot, for relatively low efficiency panels and half again that for higher efficiency, including a plastic substrate from Lowes. If you are running a million square feet of the stuff and buy substrate in 1,000 meter rolls, you are looking at pennies a square foot.
For sheets that still have to be protected from the weather and provided with pickup leads. Which is where the cost of a commercially built solar panel actually is.
Stranger
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Post by Ratty on Jul 15, 2019 4:08:54 GMT
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Post by nautonnier on Jul 15, 2019 10:35:25 GMT
I wonder what the EROI is on all that undersea cable? How much energy would be required to mine, smelt, make and install the cable? Then of course what does Singapore do on the diurnal occasions that the Sun is no longer visible to Northern Australia?
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