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Post by graywolf on Dec 31, 2014 11:41:15 GMT
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Post by acidohm on Dec 31, 2014 12:18:42 GMT
I'm trying to find the source of this info, i read somewhere that historically it is common for one pole to be at maximum while the other is at minimum, the data from 1970 shows this but obviously it would be nice to have proxy data demonstrating this over a much longer timescale....
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Post by nautonnier on Dec 31, 2014 14:25:40 GMT
I'm trying to find the source of this info, i read somewhere that historically it is common for one pole to be at maximum while the other is at minimum, the data from 1970 shows this but obviously it would be nice to have proxy data demonstrating this over a much longer timescale.... View AttachmentThere is some information on alternating polar ice levels here
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Post by graywolf on Dec 31, 2014 15:17:34 GMT
arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/The above site gives both poles ice area and a long track record of 'global' sea ice areas. Currently the Antarctic is holding up with a 1.5 million excess whilst our pole is half a million under ( 1980's average )? With the Ross seas area now looking patchy that southern excess looks set to fall so I guess if folks wanted the most 'encouraging snapshot' it would be now before the anom fades back? As for the Arctic the 'compaction event'? has seen JAXA drop 2014 below the other plots shown ( 2007, 2011, 2012) for this date?
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Post by magellan on Dec 31, 2014 17:10:32 GMT
arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/The above site gives both poles ice area and a long track record of 'global' sea ice areas. Currently the Antarctic is holding up with a 1.5 million excess whilst our pole is half a million under ( 1980's average )? With the Ross seas area now looking patchy that southern excess looks set to fall so I guess if folks wanted the most 'encouraging snapshot' it would be now before the anom fades back? As for the Arctic the 'compaction event'? has seen JAXA drop 2014 below the other plots shown ( 2007, 2011, 2012) for this date? Graywolf, why do you suppose the start date begins in 1979 instead of 1974?
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Post by cuttydyer on Dec 31, 2014 17:23:35 GMT
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Post by acidohm on Dec 31, 2014 18:48:39 GMT
The above also illustrates the idea of poles alternating in extent, would be nice if we could trace this further back in history....
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Post by magellan on Dec 31, 2014 22:22:40 GMT
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Post by slh1234 on Jan 1, 2015 1:22:02 GMT
For the context I'm reading, I see this post: End of 2014 and global sea ice near historical maximums. As far as an AGW crisis, what really is there left to say? When will the madness end? Followed immediately by this post: Which makes me think graywolf is responding to Walnut. In that context, I have to say: Your post is ONLY northern hemisphere, whereas Walnut is talking global. Odd that eh?
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Post by slh1234 on Jan 1, 2015 1:24:31 GMT
arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/The above site gives both poles ice area and a long track record of 'global' sea ice areas. Currently the Antarctic is holding up with a 1.5 million excess whilst our pole is half a million under ( 1980's average )? With the Ross seas area now looking patchy that southern excess looks set to fall so I guess if folks wanted the most 'encouraging snapshot' it would be now before the anom fades back? As for the Arctic the 'compaction event'? has seen JAXA drop 2014 below the other plots shown ( 2007, 2011, 2012) for this date? If a person wants an encouraging shapshot from this site, what they could do is find graywolf's predictions over the last couple/few years, compare those with what happened to find his success rate, and take a look at what he's predicting in this case. His rate of being correct should provide encouragement to those looking to be optimistic when he's predicting doom.
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Post by sigurdur on Jan 1, 2015 1:38:57 GMT
Greywolf is using the AGW biased information. There have been many failed predictions by AGW learners.
What I have observed is the bias to ignore empirical evidence in favor of model based projections.
There are ample papers indicating an ice free summer time Arctic. The current temperature pattern seems to be close to MIS-11. Also, most of Greenland's ice sjeets melt off during interglacial periods. It is obvious to all that Greenland presently still most of its ice sheet. Somehow I don't think this interglacial will pass without sustained Arctic warming If it does it will be an outlier.
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Post by acidohm on Jan 1, 2015 2:48:48 GMT
That's spot on....thx mage?lan!
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Post by graywolf on Jan 6, 2015 9:23:59 GMT
Bering and Okhotsk in trouble? Bering lost all its ice over the first 3 days of Jan. meanwhile Fram is still sending our 'retained ice' from the past two summers to oblivion ( to be replaced by new thin ice). If extent gains remain the same as we are seeing currently we will be bottom of the series by weekend. The next Piomas update will reflect the December losses through Fram and then the hiatus across the external Pacific sectors will further drag down Jan. Looks like Volume is set to rejoin the lowest on record along with extent?
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Post by dontgetoutmuch on Jan 6, 2015 16:10:05 GMT
Graywolf, I think the historic part is the fact that there has never been more ice measured on the forth of January. Odd that eh? I know you and your fellow alarmists tend to fixate on wherever you can find a snowdrift that happens to be melting, but really, this is a record high level of ice. Yes, I am aware that you have found a puddle where there might be a little less ice then there was in a year cherry picked by you and yours, but this hardly makes for an effective argument. Why don't you come back on a day when there is less GLOBAL ice then has ever been measured? The last time that happened was in 2006, no? And here we are almost a decade later with more ice then has ever been measured. Some death spiral.
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Post by douglavers on Jan 8, 2015 5:36:21 GMT
home.comcast.net/~ewerme/wuwt/cryo_compare.jpgarctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.anomaly.antarctic.pngnsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/S_stddev_timeseries.pngThere are some interesting points about these graphs ;
Graph 1: Most of the normal "unfrozen" bit is in the Barents Sea North of Norway. This might be related to the extremely active Atlantic Depressions this year. Note, open water that far North loses heat from our planet really fast. Claiming that low ice supports AGW theory might be a little premature.
I might add that the Atlantic as a whole is cold. The North Atlantic Drift seems to have stalled. When the depressions subside, Europe is going to notice that its climate zone has shifted.
Graphs 2 & 3: These demonstrate that Antarctic Ice is producing a very large positive anomaly. What people in the Northern Hemisphere may have missed, is that it is now high Summer in that area. Normally large deviations occur mid winter, when there is far more ice.
To have this size anomaly at this time of year is disconcerting, especially for the penguins.
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