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Post by throttleup on Mar 10, 2015 23:48:43 GMT
Fresh out of the Fram, Sig!
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Post by throttleup on Mar 10, 2015 23:48:54 GMT
Fresh out of the Fram, Sig!
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Post by graywolf on Mar 11, 2015 14:22:31 GMT
I'm surprised to see folk looking at local conditions and making global assumptions? Should we look at the lack of snow in Anchorage ( making their annual snow sculpture comp a tad difficult ) or is that not admissible?
The Arctic spilling its guts over eastern USA, on the back of the triple R driven by low sea ice levels, is not only a concern for those poor sods in Boston waking up to a roof full of holes and no guttering but also for those who had their cold 'robbed' by them? The lack of ice in Bering/okhotsk are keeping us with a max ice level sub 14 million for the first time in our records so where do we think that 'cold' would have been best served?
It would be a beautiful irony if eastern US now have this winter/summer pattern nailed on? More republicans waving snow balls as proof of the lack of warming as the rest of the globe melts ( LOL)....... IMBY global research at its best!
As it is we have seen the quality of the 'multiyear ice' , now being touted as an Arctic Saviour, so do not expect me to hold my breath in hope of a third year 'rebound year' esp as 2012 managed its swan dive with a load more ice in March........
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Post by duwayne on Mar 11, 2015 14:36:46 GMT
So now floating ice ,when melted, increases sea levels? ? Hmmmm...... maybe thermal expansion? As it is we're still below our 14 million and we are still drifting away from our current Feb max. As for start points not indicating end points? Could we say that in a 14 million plus pack it does not seem to make a difference ( as all the extra ice is outside the basin anyway?) but that a pack restricted to the basin alone will see earlier melt of the peripheral ice ( seeing as it has no buffer of ice beyond its limit) and so warmer oceans eating back into the pack earlier? Where did you get the idea that I believed that melting sea ice causes the oceans to rise? ? Did you just make this up? Will you be reporting sometime soon on your prediction from a couple of years ago that massive releases of Arctic methane were imminent?
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Post by sigurdur on Mar 11, 2015 15:24:20 GMT
I'm surprised to see folk looking at local conditions and making global assumptions? Should we look at the lack of snow in Anchorage ( making their annual snow sculpture comp a tad difficult ) or is that not admissible? The Arctic spilling its guts over eastern USA, on the back of the triple R driven by low sea ice levels, is not only a concern for those poor sods in Boston waking up to a roof full of holes and no guttering but also for those who had their cold 'robbed' by them? The lack of ice in Bering/okhotsk are keeping us with a max ice level sub 14 million for the first time in our records so where do we think that 'cold' would have been best served? It would be a beautiful irony if eastern US now have this winter/summer pattern nailed on? More republicans waving snow balls as proof of the lack of warming as the rest of the globe melts ( LOL)....... IMBY global research at its best! As it is we have seen the quality of the 'multiyear ice' , now being touted as an Arctic Saviour, so do not expect me to hold my breath in hope of a third year 'rebound year' esp as 2012 managed its swan dive with a load more ice in March........ Graywolf: I am looking forward to 2090 when the Arctic is ice free in the summer. That will be such a blessing! What is the downside? Potentially that could signal the start of a Wisconsin glacier. Ever notice how the winter season in North America mimics where the Wisconsin Glacier resided for a few thousand years?
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Post by phydeaux2363 on Mar 11, 2015 15:30:00 GMT
So now floating ice ,when melted, increases sea levels? ? Hmmmm...... maybe thermal expansion? As it is we're still below our 14 million and we are still drifting away from our current Feb max. As for start points not indicating end points? Could we say that in a 14 million plus pack it does not seem to make a difference ( as all the extra ice is outside the basin anyway?) but that a pack restricted to the basin alone will see earlier melt of the peripheral ice ( seeing as it has no buffer of ice beyond its limit) and so warmer oceans eating back into the pack earlier? Where did you get the idea that I believed that melting sea ice causes the oceans to rise? ? Did you just make this up? Will you be reporting sometime soon on your prediction from a couple of years ago that massive releases of Arctic methane were imminent? Not Mr. Wolf's only failed prediction. He jumped on the 2014 Super El Nino bandwagon in big way as well, and has several times over the past three or four years predicted record Arctic melt. Like most dedicated AGW lovers, a litany of failed predictions has not swayed Mr. Wolf from making more, and writing as if his ideas have been vindicated. In some ways, I admire such blind adherence to dogma; it must be invigorating to always know you are right, even when you everyone around you shows you you are wrong.
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Post by sigurdur on Mar 11, 2015 18:04:33 GMT
I'm surprised to see folk looking at local conditions and making global assumptions? Should we look at the lack of snow in Anchorage ( making their annual snow sculpture comp a tad difficult ) or is that not admissible? The Arctic spilling its guts over eastern USA, on the back of the triple R driven by low sea ice levels, is not only a concern for those poor sods in Boston waking up to a roof full of holes and no guttering but also for those who had their cold 'robbed' by them? The lack of ice in Bering/okhotsk are keeping us with a max ice level sub 14 million for the first time in our records so where do we think that 'cold' would have been best served? It would be a beautiful irony if eastern US now have this winter/summer pattern nailed on? More republicans waving snow balls as proof of the lack of warming as the rest of the globe melts ( LOL)....... IMBY global research at its best! As it is we have seen the quality of the 'multiyear ice' , now being touted as an Arctic Saviour, so do not expect me to hold my breath in hope of a third year 'rebound year' esp as 2012 managed its swan dive with a load more ice in March........ Your blanket statement referring to Republicans as dim hurts my feelings. Ow, what big teeth you have, I suspect you prefer the genius of Hillary? Who???
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Post by sigurdur on Mar 11, 2015 18:05:33 GMT
Not Mr. Wolf's only failed prediction. He jumped on the 2014 Super El Nino bandwagon in big way as well, and has several times over the past three or four years predicted record Arctic melt. Like most dedicated AGW lovers, a litany of failed predictions has not swayed Mr. Wolf from making more, and writing as if his ideas have been vindicated. In some ways, I admire such blind adherence to dogma; it must be invigorating to always know you are right, even when you everyone around you shows you you are wrong. Stuck clocks running on Zulu time are correct once a day....just sayin.
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Post by sigurdur on Mar 11, 2015 18:07:41 GMT
Fresh out of the Fram, Sig! The beaching of 2+ meter ice has me curious now. Maybe Graywolf can find us a satellite map showing the ice on the eastern edge of North America.
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Post by sigurdur on Mar 11, 2015 18:10:15 GMT
The Naires Straight is on the North West corner of Greenland. Prob where the ice came from in Boston and area beaches.
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Post by nonentropic on Mar 11, 2015 18:19:38 GMT
Code the comment by Wolf indicates the reality its a Ideology based issue.
There are some very daft Rep. But they are well balanced by Dem. Of similar deficit.
The Green movement is utterly linked to state based economic control. Marx!
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Post by acidohm on Mar 11, 2015 18:46:15 GMT
I'm surprised to see folk looking at local conditions and making global assumptions? Should we look at the lack of snow in Anchorage ( making their annual snow sculpture comp a tad difficult ) or is that not admissible? The Arctic spilling its guts over eastern USA, on the back of the triple R driven by low sea ice levels, is not only a concern for those poor sods in Boston waking up to a roof full of holes and no guttering but also for those who had their cold 'robbed' by them? The lack of ice in Bering/okhotsk are keeping us with a max ice level sub 14 million for the first time in our records so where do we think that 'cold' would have been best served? It would be a beautiful irony if eastern US now have this winter/summer pattern nailed on? More republicans waving snow balls as proof of the lack of warming as the rest of the globe melts ( LOL)....... IMBY global research at its best! As it is we have seen the quality of the 'multiyear ice' , now being touted as an Arctic Saviour, so do not expect me to hold my breath in hope of a third year 'rebound year' esp as 2012 managed its swan dive with a load more ice in March........ I think people take local conditions as an example that despite the warming alarm...there is plenty of cold out there. The Arctic is low in ice....so? This is to be expected when the Antarctic has lots, this is a situation which has been proven to exist for longer then we've been around. ..It will see saw back the other way....and anyway....isn't focusing on the Arctic also just looking at a kind of local condition? Global warming won't be proved or disproved just by what happens there... Overall, despite the mantras of the warmist communities, it is too easy to poke at the argument. I haven't seen any evidence of warming for nearly 10 years.. In fact, I've seen the bitterest winters and dullest summers in this time. As the sun activity literally collapses as it has in the last month....where I am near Oxford, UK. ..I'm scrapping ice off my truck every morning...The forecast right now is an arctic airmass for next week.....nice....
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Post by graywolf on Mar 12, 2015 10:05:45 GMT
Looking at different forecasts than me then? I see HP over the continent bring in cold easterlies from the cold interior?
Anyhow ,still sub 14 million and still losing ice ( at about the rate we ought to be gaining at this time of year?) .
So what of the 'multiyear' ice? Is it the same type that prof Barbers ship was making 13 knots through ( the ships top speed was 13.5 knots) back in 2010? Since we lost the last of the paleocryistic back in 2010 the basin has seen varying amounts of fy, 2nd year, 3rd year ,4th and 5th year ice but over the melt season we have all travelled with the various expeditions over the basin and seen the quality of the 'remnant ice, come seasons end. None of it appears untouched by melt and a lot looks badly degraded ( swiss cheese ice). This ice then becomes entombed in FY new grown ice come re-freeze. So how much of the older ice types is 'rotten ice'?
in 2012 we saw 5m of ice melt out off the north shore of Greenland over the month of August. How is such a feat possible? Was the heat so great and water so warm or was the majority of that 'older ice' rotten ice ( and so not defying physics by its melting?).
Maybe this summer will put this to the test? With Fram now back on line I believe we can expect a more typical summer so expect export as well as in-situ melt? With the pacific side having no Bering buffer melt there will begin in earnest once the sun is high enough.
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Post by walnut on Mar 12, 2015 15:03:55 GMT
I am not convinced that low arctic ice is a damning indictment in favor of global warming when the reduced arctic ice is more than offset by antarctic ice extent growth. It just seems to illustrate how complex the earths climate is. Easier to predict a super bowl winner than to handicap what the climate is going to do over the next few decades IMO.
Its funny when you think about it, we cannot even agree on what the current situation is. Once side says we are currently experiencing dramatic and historic warming per their temperature data. The other side says that we are in the midst of a significant cool down to soon be followed by a climate and solar minimum. Why bother to read the difficult science when (a) the data has probably been manipulated and (b) even the "experts" cannot agree on what the data means.
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Post by graywolf on Mar 12, 2015 17:45:42 GMT
Walnut, I think you need to go re check your data? You'll find the losses across the Arctic far outweight the recovery in Antarctic ice ongoing since the early 80's. If you look at sea ice volume differences you'll find an even more stark contrast ( seeing as the Arctic shed 70% of its total sea ice volume since the 70's).
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