|
|
Post by sigurdur on Mar 14, 2012 16:23:19 GMT
And Iceskater, it is VERY VERY important that you understand what I wrote above, which nautonnier confirmed.
|
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Mar 14, 2012 17:30:02 GMT
nautonnier said: "On Sigurdur's points. Perhaps you would explain Stefan Boltzmann's equation on radiation from a warm object. Is there anything in that equation that states a temperature at which radiation _stops_ other than absolute zero?" Iceskater......do you understand this? Sigurdur, absorption is just as likely as emission. By emphasising emission you are missing half of the picture. That is what is important. Your statement that all matter is cooling is a half truth where you have mixed one fact with another fact to create something you believe is true ALL matter is not cooling. It only cools when it is cooling. That is the currently accepted idea. To argue otherwise you would need to repudiate quantum physics |
|
|
|
Post by sigurdur on Mar 14, 2012 17:34:22 GMT
Iceskater:
ALL matter is cooling. Without a suplimental source of energy, all matter will eventually stop cooling at absolute zero.
Note the "suplimental source" of energy, in this case it is the sun. But even the sun will eventually burn out and become cold.
|
|
|
|
Post by sigurdur on Mar 14, 2012 17:38:28 GMT
I shall refrain from entering this discussion until you understand this basic principle.
|
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Mar 14, 2012 17:40:16 GMT
Iceskater: ALL matter is cooling. Without a suplimental source of energy, all matter will eventually stop cooling at absolute zero. Note the "suplimental source" of energy, in this case it is the sun. But even the sun will eventually burn out and become cold. If you create the rules then you can create anything you want. Only if an object cannot find a source of heat will it cool to absolute zero. The universe is full of sources of heat other than the Sun. ALL matter is not cooling. |
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Mar 14, 2012 17:44:38 GMT
I shall refrain from entering this discussion until you understand this basic principle. You are muddled up. If we say 1. the universe will eventually reach absolute zero because energy is leaving the universe and will never return and the universe can never escape an absolute zero fate. that is different to saying 2. ALL matter is cooling. |
|
|
|
Post by magellan on Mar 14, 2012 23:11:02 GMT
Steve answered that it was possible due to the heat of decomposition And you thought that was a serious reply? Oh my. Ok then, forget the human body. How about a manikin, warmed to 98.6 degrees F, then placed outside in the cold at 50 F. Will the manikin get warmer if a blanket is placed around it? As i have already demonstrated if an object is warmed and then placed in air, the surface is colder than the interior and therefore the interior heats the surface. When the blanket is placed around the object the surface layer will rise in temperature until the various heating and cooling forces are in balance. The same would apply to a recently deceased dead body which had been cooling in the same kind of uninsulated environment prior to the blanket being placed. I don't have a manikin so this probably won't meet your demand for a qualified test. However, I still have my disc friend and he is deader than a door nail I assure you.  Initial conditions: Room temperature: 70.9 F Specimen temperature: 150 F soaked for 3 hrs Equipment used: Fluke 87V w/bead probe. Fluke 561 IRT This is a good application for the IRT. I’m sure Iceskater will say I’m doing it wrong again, and seeing how he is all knowing will offer the best design for this experiment thereby validating his perpetuum mobile heat pump. Maybe the blanket should have been in the freezer for 2 hrs. The room temp was too warm. Too cold. The stars weren’t aligned. Radio interference. The blanket was white. The body was black. The body wasn’t black enough. Did I forget anything? 1) Dead body allowed to cool to 102 F per IRT (within 1 deg F both surfaces), then placed in grave blanket (high heat thermal insulation material) on top of cardboard box (coffin). It would keep a living body toasty warm at night. 2) Grave blanket was at room temperature prior to test. 3) Bead probe placed through center hole of dead body exposed to the top surface. 4) Target marked on dead body to assure consistent point of measurement for IRT. 5) Initial temperature measurements just prior to blanket wrapped around dead body: IRT- 99.5 Probe- 106.9 Probe temperature immediately dropped to 106.1 F within 15 secs, then stabilized. After ~2 minutes, grave blanket removed (probe temp taken prior to blanket removal): IRT- 98.5 Probe- 105.2 After ~30 sec, blanket replaced. Probe- 103.6 ~2 min, blanket removed. IRT- 97.2 Probe- 102.9 ~30 sec, blanket replaced. Probe- 102.2 ~2 min, blanket removed IRT- 96.1 Probe- 101.6 ~30 sec, blanket replaced Probe- 100.8 ~2 min, blanket removed IRT- 95.0 Probe- 100.1 ~1 min, blanket replaced Probe- 99.0 ~2min, blanket removed IRT- 93.4 Probe- 98.3 No manikins were harmed during this test. In Iceskater’s world, hypothermia isn’t real. In fact, if you jump naked into 32.5 deg F water in Lake Michigan, your body temperature actually rises for an unspecified amount of time during the brief few minutes left you have to live. Pay no attention to the pain, numbness and life leaving your body; it is all in your head. |
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Mar 15, 2012 0:01:21 GMT
I have already demonstrated this effect with 4cm polystryrene using one of my bricks where only one side of the brick was uninsulated. With the probes connected i heated one block to about 80C. The thermometers go off scale at 70C. Once out of the oven and in the test room the bricks recorded about 66C both sides prior to me getting them in the insulation Once in the insulation the fully insulated side quickly went off scale again and remained like that for about 40 minutes. The uninsulated side also warmed many degrees but remained on scale around 66C Eventually when the outerface had cooled to about 56 degrees the fully insulated face went on scale again at 70C  |
|
|
|
Post by magellan on Mar 15, 2012 0:24:49 GMT
I don't have a manikin so this probably won't meet your demand for a qualified test. However, I still have my disc friend and he is deader than a door nail I assure you. Initial conditions: Room temperature: 70.9 F Specimen temperature: 150 F soaked for 3 hrs Equipment used: Fluke 87V w/bead probe. Fluke 561 IRT This is a good application for the IRT. I’m sure Iceskater will say I’m doing it wrong again, and seeing how he is all knowing will offer the best design for this experiment thereby validating his perpetuum mobile heat pump. Maybe the blanket should have been in the freezer for 2 hrs. The room temp was too warm. Too cold. The stars weren’t aligned. Radio interference. The blanket was white. The body was black. The body wasn’t black enough. Did I forget anything? 1) Dead body allowed to cool to 102 F per IRT (within 1 deg F both surfaces), then placed in grave blanket (high heat thermal insulation material) on top of cardboard box (coffin). It would keep a living body toasty warm at night. 2) Grave blanket was at room temperature prior to test. 3) Bead probe placed through center hole of dead body exposed to the top surface. 4) Target marked on dead body to assure consistent point of measurement for IRT. 5) Initial temperature measurements just prior to blanket wrapped around dead body: IRT- 99.5 Probe- 106.9 Probe temperature immediately dropped to 106.1 F within 15 secs, then stabilized. After ~2 minutes, grave blanket removed (probe temp taken prior to blanket removal): IRT- 98.5 Probe- 105.2 After ~30 sec, blanket replaced. Probe- 103.6 ~2 min, blanket removed. IRT- 97.2 Probe- 102.9 ~30 sec, blanket replaced. Probe- 102.2 ~2 min, blanket removed IRT- 96.1 Probe- 101.6 ~30 sec, blanket replaced Probe- 100.8 ~2 min, blanket removed IRT- 95.0 Probe- 100.1 ~1 min, blanket replaced Probe- 99.0 ~2min, blanket removed IRT- 93.4 Probe- 98.3 No manikins were harmed during this test. In Iceskater’s world, hypothermia isn’t real. In fact, if you jump naked into 32.5 deg F water in Lake Michigan, your body temperature actually rises for an unspecified amount of time during the brief few minutes left you have to live. Pay no attention to the pain, numbness and life leaving your body; it is all in your head. I have already demonstrated this effect with 4cm polystryrene using one of my bricks where only one side of the brick was uninsulated. With the probes connected i heated one block to about 80C. The thermometers go off scale at 70C. Once out of the oven and in the test room the bricks recorded about 66C both sides prior to me getting them in the insulation Once in the insulation the fully insulated side quickly went off scale again and remained like that for about 40 minutes. The uninsulated side also warmed many degrees but remained on scale around 66C Eventually when the outerface had cooled to about 56 degrees the fully insulated face went on scale again at 70C You said a dead body would warm if a blanket was placed around it. Are you saying my equipment is faulty? What are your controls? Equipment list? Show pictures of exactly what you were doing, because thus far you haven't demonstrated a legitimate experiment by methodology. I've seen people measure stuff that once under a microscope weren't measuring what they thought. Case and point the CO2 in a bottle parlor trick; even fooled Bill Nye The unScience Guy. When this first started you thought the IRT was the berries, so that's what I used; quite accurate under these conditions actually. |
|
|
|
Post by icefisher on Mar 15, 2012 0:42:39 GMT
Hey Magellan!
He said he got the uninsulated side of his brick to warm several degrees from 66C to 66C!
LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL!
|
|
|
|
Post by icefisher on Mar 15, 2012 0:44:31 GMT
Once out of the oven and in the test room the bricks recorded about 66C both sides prior to me getting them in the insulation Once in the insulation the fully insulated side quickly went off scale again and remained like that for about 40 minutes.
The uninsulated side also warmed many degrees but remained on scale around 66C
LOL!
|
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Mar 15, 2012 0:51:36 GMT
Hey Magellan! He said he got the uninsulated side of his brick to warm several degrees from 66C to 66C! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! I said before I placed the brick in the insulation both sides were about 66C. Putting the heavy brick in the polystyrene was far harder than i imagined as picking it up and bringing it upright starting breaking the glued up pieces of polystyrene. So i had to take it out a few times and get it organised as best i could without the insulated box i made becoming a pile of junk. The uninsulated face then warmed several degrees at least to around 66C Anyway the main point was the insulated side warmed from 66C to over 70C and remained like that for at least 40 minutes |
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Mar 15, 2012 0:58:04 GMT
I have already demonstrated this effect with 4cm polystryrene using one of my bricks where only one side of the brick was uninsulated. With the probes connected i heated one block to about 80C. The thermometers go off scale at 70C. Once out of the oven and in the test room the bricks recorded about 66C both sides prior to me getting them in the insulation Once in the insulation the fully insulated side quickly went off scale again and remained like that for about 40 minutes. The uninsulated side also warmed many degrees but remained on scale around 66C Eventually when the outerface had cooled to about 56 degrees the fully insulated face went on scale again at 70C You said a dead body would warm if a blanket was placed around it. Are you saying my equipment is faulty? What are your controls? Equipment list? Show pictures of exactly what you were doing, because thus far you haven't demonstrated a legitimate experiment by methodology. I've seen people measure stuff that once under a microscope weren't measuring what they thought. Case and point the CO2 in a bottle parlor trick; even fooled Bill Nye The unScience Guy. When this first started you thought the IRT was the berries, so that's what I used; quite accurate under these conditions actually. You dont seem to understand the scientific method. 1. The effect i got was so enormous your petty critique is unnecessary 2. The idea is to repeat what i did rather than ramble on about what you did that did not work The equipment list is fairly obvious |
|
