|
Post by missouriboy on Feb 23, 2015 5:02:54 GMT
So true! And it really doesn't matter if there is a God or not! Satisfaction in life comes from giving instead of taking. Fearing for ones soul allows somebody to do the sorts of things that builds self confidence, self-appreciation, find happiness and satisfaction (lusting for material things, like drug addiction, is only a process of never finding enough). Acting on what you believe to be right is very different than acting on what you want and will improve your life so much more. Thats true of all the major religions including Islam. The ignorant and that includes an awful lot of scientists is in believing religion is about controlling people, but thats not religion thats just people misinterpreting religion as something that applies to other people rather than themselves. Well stated Icefisher! Old Story: One man asks another if he knows the difference between a fundamentalist and a radical fundamentalist. The man asked said that he did not. The one who asked says ... If you disagree on a religious issue with a fundamentalist,
he will pray for you! The radical fundamentalist will just kill you! I spent five years in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. I enjoyed it, and it reinforced my views that all people everywhere are essentially the same at our very basic level, but our cultures separate us. We are what we eat literally and figuratively. I met many good, decent people ... I was treated very well ... and I owe a debt to say that. However, their world view is NOT the same as ours, and they will fight for theirs just as we, in the past, have fought for ours. I largely met the educated and connected as I was there working at their pleasure. I consider myself a Christian. Our culture takes its religions at its leasure and tolerance is the common paradigm. Their culture largely takes their religion (note the singular) as the primary focal point of their life, their society and their politics. Their religion IS their culture. While some may need to be prodded to mosque with sticks, most do not. If their Imams and Mullahs call, they will come. I have heard it said, that in the end times, the middle east will again be green ... and when everyone is a Muslim, there will be peace. And as Tiny Tim said ... God bless us every one!
|
|
|
Post by phydeaux2363 on Feb 23, 2015 5:07:39 GMT
It's when there is no religion, or when religion is outlawed, that really, really bad things happen. I give you Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Atheists all, deniers of God, and collective murderers of a hundred million souls. And that's just in the last half of the twentieth century.
|
|
|
Post by missouriboy on Feb 23, 2015 17:03:30 GMT
He and his message strike me as genuine as I think I saw the same thing during my years in the Middle East. Watching this brought back memories of 5 years in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, where I had discussions with educated Muslims who said essentially the same thing, only with a different slant as to what was emphasized. I never doubted that they believed what they said ... and God help those who, by their actions or words, were interpreted as slandering the faith. He provides an explanation that I, as a non-Muslim, felt but could never quite understand.
|
|
|
Post by walnut on Feb 23, 2015 17:14:43 GMT
I wish it were true. My experience has been different. I've known muslims in several different settings. I think that they should live and prosper in their own native countries.
|
|
|
Post by phydeaux2363 on Feb 23, 2015 17:40:13 GMT
|
|
|
Post by missouriboy on Feb 23, 2015 17:42:58 GMT
It's when there is no religion, or when religion is outlawed, that really, really bad things happen. I give you Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Atheists all, deniers of God, and collective muderers of a hundred million souls. And that's just in the last half of the twentieth century. You are right in what you say, as far as it goes ... but this is absolutely not limited to the Godless. These men also harnessed rampant beliefs and prejudices in there cultures to accomplish their work. They could not accomplish it by themselves. The only true difference I see between the atheistic and the religious murderers is which world they are looking to get their reward in. The atheistic criminal may possibly be reasoned with, since their reward is definitely of this world. The religious criminal cannot be reasoned with as their reward requires their death. They are both selfish at their very core. The true Christian must have a different world/self view. "As you have done to the least of these my brothers, so you have done it unto me." We must change ourselves before we can change the world.
|
|
|
Post by missouriboy on Feb 23, 2015 19:08:18 GMT
I wish it were true. My experience has been different. I've known muslims in several different settings. I think that they should live and prosper in their own native countries. You may be right Walnut. Unfortunately, I believe we may be headed for a re-ignition of a very old clash of civilizations. The old nation state concept was based largely on a commonality of ethnicity or culture. Germany is composed largely of Germans, China of Chinese. Where disparate groups of culture or genetics have been incorporated into one territorial entity, it has been the result of some commonalities or by conquest, with or without assimilation. Where they have succeeded it has been because of these commonalities. They have largely failed (look at much of the middle east) where peoples have been thrown together without their consent. We are the first state to be based on an idea versus an ethnicity. That idea (a child of the Anglo-European Enlightenment) states that we have basic God-given rights, which we have struggled to codify and expand over at least 3 centuries. What our documents do not state explicitly but definitely imply, is that we must give to others these same rights in order to claim them for ourselves. These precepts are very much based on Christian principles. The basic unit is individual rights and responsibility. We are not collectively saved, but individually. To be an American, one must implicitly support these principles. Thus, we should cherish diversity with reciprocal responsibility. We have not always lived up to these principles, but I hope they remain our guide ... without them, WE do not exist. If mister Shoebat is correct, and I fear he is, then the very essence of Islam (which means submission) is the polar opposite of our founding principles, as it requires submission to ONE essential theology and its worldly interpretation, where diversity and the individual must be sacrificed. While every Muslim may not fully subscribe to this notion, there appears to be a rising collective consciousness that appears to be supported by a sizeable proportion of Muslims. ISIS or ISIL did not spring from a vacuum. I believe it really is the re-emergence of a historical force that our ancestors have seen before. Climate is not the only thing that may be cyclical. As I see it, the concept of the world Caliphate is also based on an idea, but that idea is the antitheses of ours. It may be time for a Muslim Reformation ... led by those Muslims that are truely interested in being a part of the American idea. Shall I hold my breath?
|
|
|
Post by sigurdur on Feb 25, 2015 6:03:20 GMT
At least the USA is starting to finally understand the long LONG lasting animosity between groups in the Middle East. President Bush really screwed the pooch on this one. Yes, he was advised, but he was still Commander in Chief and he seemed to go with the flow willingly. Doing the bidding of a bunch of nuts who knew not what they were doing.
|
|
|
Post by magellan on Feb 26, 2015 17:20:23 GMT
|
|
|
Post by sigurdur on Mar 6, 2015 0:40:11 GMT
|
|
|
Post by glennkoks on Mar 6, 2015 2:58:13 GMT
The Military Industrial Complex needs an enemy. In this case a rag tag group of crazies have been given far to much news time on the 24 hour news channels. Here is a novel concept. Why don't we let the powers in region deal with the issues in their own backyard?
We can be supportive and lead without becoming isolationists.
|
|
|
Post by glennkoks on Mar 7, 2015 1:25:34 GMT
Glen, How would that work out in Europe or the Middle East or Asia? I suppose the only reason China is building Stealth aircraft, flattops, ICBM's and developing 1st strike hypersonic missiles is they like to build things and they feel threatened by Malaysia? Code, I am curious as to just what you suggest we do about China building Stealth Aircraft, Flattops and ICBM's? Pre-emtive strike? I don't think so. In addition ISIS does not have any of the aforementioned capabilities nor do I see them getting them anytime soon. Let's lead with intelligence, support etc but the nut jobs should be dealt with by the powers in the region not the U.S.
|
|
|
Post by walnut on Mar 7, 2015 5:22:52 GMT
We never had to foster and promote China to where it has gotten. And we could still stop it. This is insanity. The US is no longer a "nation". America is now just a large economic unit, more or less. But perhaps not even unified enough to describe it as that.
|
|
|
Post by glennkoks on Mar 7, 2015 14:02:19 GMT
Glen, Thanks for the reply. Yeah, what to do about China. Wish I knew everything we should do but I don't, I do know we need to make sure they know limits. I'm thumbing through a copy right now of "Asia's Cauldron" by Robert D. Kaplan and he writes "Thucydides writes that the "real cause" of the Peloponnesian War was the rise of Athenian sea power and "the alarm which this inspired in Sparta." The analogy to us and China is well...pretty obvious. Hopefully we know our own limits. Have you heard of the hundred year marathon which basically says China wants to beat us albeit very slowly. www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_YAll China needs to do is stay the course. Economically we are squandering our future and if the Chinese play their cards correctly they will be in the drivers seat in a few decades. With that being said American's need an enemy and just have to have irrational fears. First it was the USSR and the threat of Communism, then came the Japanese in the early eighties. You can add Syria, Libya and now ISIS to that list. Yes the Chinese are saber rattling in the South China Sea. They are also building stealth aircraft etc.... But the real fear should be the Yuan displacing the Dollar as the worlds reserve currency and sadly we seem to be helping them along.
|
|
|
Post by missouriboy on Mar 7, 2015 14:59:26 GMT
A dyed-in-the-wool Yankee Puritan Collectivist. She can't help herself...it's socio-genetic. The devil may work in New York ... but he lives in Boston.
|
|