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Post by flearider on Feb 10, 2016 22:34:52 GMT
you mean life as we know it can go on .. well till the next ice age ?
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Post by sigurdur on Feb 10, 2016 22:57:40 GMT
you mean life as we know it can go on .. well till the next ice age ? Yep, life can go on, as long as you bring lots of water..... But wait! The ice is melting so it will be warm water.....dog gone it!
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Post by zer0th on Feb 11, 2016 13:01:42 GMT
View AttachmentThis might help. Late Ordovician Glaciation occurred with several thousand ppm of CO2. "Settled science" would suggest that is impossible. Or perhaps our climate theory is a little incomplete? The canon response to the above difficulty is that solar output was ~4% lower in the Ordovician. My gut suspects that's too small a difference to explain the results... however [unlike the church], I'm uncertain.
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Post by acidohm on Feb 11, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
View AttachmentThis might help. Late Ordovician Glaciation occurred with several thousand ppm of CO2. "Settled science" would suggest that is impossible. Or perhaps our climate theory is a little incomplete? The canon response to the above difficulty is that solar output was ~4% lower in the Ordovician. My gut suspects that's too small a difference to explain the results... however [unlike the church], I'm uncertain. So 50% reduction will have no effect due to agw!
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Post by icefisher on Feb 11, 2016 16:03:51 GMT
View AttachmentThis might help. Late Ordovician Glaciation occurred with several thousand ppm of CO2. "Settled science" would suggest that is impossible. Or perhaps our climate theory is a little incomplete? More importantly from that chart the temperature has a ceiling at ~22C this would appear to indicate the presence of a strong negative feedback that operates at that 'global temperature' preventing excursion above it. This level of stable homeostasis falsifies catastrophic AGW. Negative feedback or height of maximum solar variance. Those dips are occurring once every 150 million years. Perhaps Astromet can find it on his charts if he also plots the stars. ?
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Post by douglavers on Feb 12, 2016 10:55:00 GMT
Going back to the above comment, after the Ordovician Glaciation, temperatures rebounded to approximately their level pre-ice. No-one has any real idea why it happened [?meteor strikes, volcanoes, solar dustl, but the key point was that it appeared to have almost nothing to do with carbon dioxide. Or the level of solar output. This reminds me of, I think, William Kelvin. Around 1900, if my old and decrepit memory serves, he said "All physics is pretty well settled apart from a few inconsequential anomalies', or words to that effect.
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Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2016 11:21:38 GMT
View AttachmentGoing back to the above comment, after the Ordovician Glaciation, temperatures rebounded to approximately their level pre-ice. No-one has any real idea why it happened [?meteor strikes, volcanoes, solar dustl, but the key point was that it appeared to have almost nothing to do with carbon dioxide. Or the level of solar output. This reminds me of, I think, William Kelvin. Around 1900, if my old and decrepit memory serves, he said "All physics is pretty well settled apart from a few inconsequential anomalies', or words to that effect. Was that the fool who said that heavier than air devices could never fly?
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Post by icefisher on Feb 12, 2016 14:47:18 GMT
View AttachmentGoing back to the above comment, after the Ordovician Glaciation, temperatures rebounded to approximately their level pre-ice. No-one has any real idea why it happened [?meteor strikes, volcanoes, solar dustl, but the key point was that it appeared to have almost nothing to do with carbon dioxide. Or the level of solar output. What are you using for a solar output proxy to make that statement?
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Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2016 15:27:10 GMT
View AttachmentThis might help. Late Ordovician Glaciation occurred with several thousand ppm of CO2. "Settled science" would suggest that is impossible. Or perhaps our climate theory is a little incomplete? The articled linked below is claiming that the beginning of the Ordovician ocean temperatures were 45C and to high for most life to exist and it was only as a result of the 15C cooling that took place towards the end of the Ordovician that life as we know began to form. www2.cnrs.fr/en/1279.htmI tell my daughter that we know more or less nothing about the Dinosaurs where T-rex was only living a few tens of millions of years ago but the Ordovician is 440 million years ago. Do we know anything really? I expect you can find competing theories for that till the cows come home.
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Post by douglavers on Feb 12, 2016 23:45:26 GMT
Above comment is not consistent with above graph. Someone is wrong!! Personally, I find it hard to believe that temperatures were ever as high as 45 degC on average in the last billion years.
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Post by sigurdur on Feb 13, 2016 3:34:50 GMT
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Post by douglavers on Feb 14, 2016 4:59:15 GMT
Icefisher asked "What are you using for a solar output proxy to make that statement?"
Looking at the huge dive into the Ordovician Glaciation, temperatures appear to have rebounded almost as quickly [bearing in mind a few hundred million years of "blurring" of the temperature record].
I don't believe the sun occasionally just switches its output down dramatically, then back up. What little I have learnt suggests changes are small in absolute terms, with subtle planetary effects.
Otherwise life om earth would have been snuffed out long ago.
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Post by Andrew on Feb 14, 2016 9:08:30 GMT
I don't believe the sun occasionally just switches its output down dramatically, then back up. The almighty power of belief
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Post by nautonnier on Feb 14, 2016 11:11:49 GMT
Icefisher asked "What are you using for a solar output proxy to make that statement?" Looking at the huge dive into the Ordovician Glaciation, temperatures appear to have rebounded almost as quickly [bearing in mind a few hundred million years of "blurring" of the temperature record]. I don't believe the sun occasionally just switches its output down dramatically, then back up. What little I have learnt suggests changes are small in absolute terms, with subtle planetary effects. Otherwise life om earth would have been snuffed out long ago. The Sun is a variable star, but it is not that variable.. Have a read of the American Meteorological Society paper: Understanding Space Weather, the Sun as a Variable Star
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Post by douglavers on Feb 14, 2016 11:17:10 GMT
Andrew, I think you missed the point.
Amongst a large number of other factors, we only exist because our planet is comparatively stable orbitwise, thanks to the moon, and the local star does not generally misbehave.
Otherwise advanced life on earth would have been snuffed out long ago. Iceball or near heat death, with little time for allegedly intelligent beings to develop.
I think my belief is rational.
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