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Post by icefisher on Jul 19, 2014 4:50:01 GMT
One of the most extreme examples I saw of the July chill was in OKC. The record low high temp set in the late 1800's was 80 F. Yesterday the high was only 68 smashing the previous record by 12 degrees. Nice summertime temperature. . . .for Anchorage, Alaska that is.
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okgal
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by okgal on Jul 19, 2014 5:50:56 GMT
Astromet, where in North America would be the best locations to live, how much temperature change could be expected and how far south will these changes effect agriculture.
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Post by nautonnier on Jul 19, 2014 11:07:48 GMT
Well I am currently in central Florida - and that is South of the Laurentide ice sheet's boundary - so I hope that will remain temperate Seems the polar vortices spinning off are following that boundary, that would be an area for research too - why that pattern?
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Post by walnut on Jul 19, 2014 12:20:55 GMT
Astromet, where in North America would be the best locations to live, how much temperature change could be expected and how far south will these changes effect agriculture. I wonder if a person could escape the main trouble if the earth cools. That is, reduced usable farmland means worldwide food scarcity, higher food prices, and higher energy costs, and friction and conflict would make the world more difficult generally.
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Post by dontgetoutmuch on Jul 19, 2014 15:07:08 GMT
Astromet, where in North America would be the best locations to live, how much temperature change could be expected and how far south will these changes effect agriculture. This site: here and here have all the info you need.
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Post by dontgetoutmuch on Jul 19, 2014 15:09:54 GMT
Astromet, where in North America would be the best locations to live, how much temperature change could be expected and how far south will these changes effect agriculture. This site: here and here have all the info you need. I suspect that if a new ice age did begin, it would lead to a world war as populations scrabbled for resources...
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Post by flearider on Jul 19, 2014 15:15:41 GMT
austrailia .. just because it's big enough and unpopulated enough to get lost in ..
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Post by AstroMet on Jul 19, 2014 18:44:21 GMT
Astromet, where in North America would be the best locations to live, how much temperature change could be expected and how far south will these changes effect agriculture. There really is no 'best place to live' as the entire planet will experience global cooling. Although most people will head south to try to escape it, they will not. What should be done is to prepare for global cooling where you are, or where you plan to relocate to, but many people are not doing that and that right there is a big part of the disaster. As we used to say in the Boy Scouts of America: 'Be Prepared.' But many people are not. Anyhow, the ideal thing may be to go where the circumpolar vortex is leaving - and that would be further north. Alaska will become a warmer place in the future while places further south will be much colder and wetter. As for the recent colder temperatures of mid-July, look at this temperature records set this past week: See ->> iceagenow.info/2014/07/record-cold-u-s-plains-midwest-south/
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Post by nonentropic on Jul 19, 2014 19:50:11 GMT
An ice age is a specific version of cooling.
Regardless many people in the world live in cooler places than say I do and they thrive.
Where the rubber hits the road is agriculture and in the cities at the limits. Just as the world over vexed in the CAGW debate, the reverse is simply a discussion about change. As an example Australia in a world 2C cooler will be much greener and agriculturally more productive. Not long ago it had very extensive forests due to a cooler world, it is the same area as the continental US. Africa with massive agricultural potential would easily absorb a 2C drop, probably it would be welcome. Even the southern half of the US would likely be more productive. Great for the world and lets face it farm gate value of agriculture is virtually a trivial part of big economies. OECD GDP portion is 1% or so. Sorry Sigurdur but change can be fun and you sound very resourceful.
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Post by nonentropic on Jul 19, 2014 21:47:00 GMT
That's not a good spot then.
But Mexico/Nevada/California could be very nice. Big places.
Don't forget the sea was 120M lower lots of fresh country to inhabit. Canada would largely be a washout but Australia is big and there would be a massive increase in area. In fact I think you can walk to Australia, but in summer along the new shoreline. Not our problem but it makes a joke of the handwringing about global warming given the lack of concern about possible cooling. Its always been out there remember the 70's. Pinot's from Bakersfield, yes can taste already.
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Post by walnut on Jul 19, 2014 22:10:23 GMT
The prospect of a temperate, green climate as opposed to the scorching heat I've almost grown to expect in Oklahoma summers over the last several years of solar activity is very appealing, like you say, just be in the right place.
However, we are not talking about a vacation here, we are talking about possibly millions of displaced people and the complete economic and social disruption that would come with it.
I know that it is unscientific, but around here, I really thought that I sensed a season of cooling between SC 23 and 24, and I am a believer. We might be headed for a cooler climate.
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Post by AstroMet on Jul 19, 2014 22:42:05 GMT
I understood Astro to have said cooling. He didn't say ice age. Global cooling will affect the entire planet, and we could indeed be seeing a new 'ice age' Code, in that the climate conditions I have calculated into the future surely look like a pause of the interglacial period we've been in, which leads into a neo-boreal age, or mini-ice age of sorts. The primary problem will be with food, health and energy sources since global cooling is not friendly to the environment is so much more dangerous than global warming could ever be, in fact, global warming is good, as I've always said, but global cooling is not and that is what is coming as the new climate regime for 30+ years.
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Post by sigurdur on Jul 19, 2014 23:20:43 GMT
The temperature deviation would be minor,1.0 C at most. The problem, even with only a 1.0C deviation is that mankind has become accustomed to the present warmth.
A perfect example is the 2013 winter. Historically it wasn't even a cold one.
Very few folks fear warmth, most folks fear cold with good reason.
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Post by AstroMet on Jul 20, 2014 0:46:39 GMT
An ice age is a specific version of cooling. Regardless many people in the world live in cooler places than say I do and they thrive. Where the rubber hits the road is agriculture and in the cities at the limits. Just as the world over vexed in the CAGW debate, the reverse is simply a discussion about change. As an example Australia in a world 2C cooler will be much greener and agriculturally more productive. Not long ago it had very extensive forests due to a cooler world, it is the same area as the continental US. Africa with massive agricultural potential would easily absorb a 2C drop, probably it would be welcome. Even the southern half of the US would likely be more productive. Great for the world and lets face it farm gate value of agriculture is virtually a trivial part of big economies. OECD GDP portion is 1% or so. Sorry Sigurdur but change can be fun and you sound very resourceful. The thing is Nonentropic that agriculture is big problem with global cooling. Moreover, massive agricultural potential is just that - potential - since Africa and the Middle East import more food than they produce and depend on breadbaskets in North & South America that will be hit by global cooling. It is more than just temperature variations, but abrupt colder temperature drops and also blasting storms, along with colder and wetter regions and colder and drier climates in other regions. The problem of high winds from the north/south direction of the circumpolar vortex and its jet streams means more active storms and that also means less crop yields as well from the increase in cloudier days and shorter spring and summer seasons. All of this could have been prepared for. I've been forecasting the coming of global cooling a long time now - for years - and yet the 'man-made global warming' propaganda made 'warm-is-bad' when in fact warm is good. It is the cold that is bad.
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Post by nonentropic on Jul 20, 2014 2:55:33 GMT
If it happens literally within a season there will be trouble if its 3 years say then price signals will produce a frenzy of change. My problem has always been that politicians blunt the drive for change with mindless "support packages" as I said before the farm gate value of agriculture is small and a doubling or tripling of food prices in the free traded market will divert massive amounts of investment into fresh regions. All this will work well so long as the ruling class who hold the purse strings don't subsidies people back into comfort thinking its only an aberration. Sigudur will face hard climatic impacts but in all likelihood will see big prices for the lower yield maybe not so bad. If its a full ice age then yes Sigudur will be shifting to the newly liberated lands around the edge of the current land areas. Sigudur has all the kit and will do well in the new high price market.
People are smart and this may never happen or at worst it may be less than we think. Change is not the new normal it always has been the norm.
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