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Post by sigurdur on Apr 1, 2015 17:56:52 GMT
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Post by acidohm on Apr 1, 2015 19:38:26 GMT
This is nothing new as the article claims....must have heard this 10 years ago, sensationalism.
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Post by sigurdur on Apr 1, 2015 20:14:20 GMT
This is nothing new as the article claims....must have heard this 10 years ago, sensationalism. You and I know this acidohm, but this will be the new mantra. The sea level rise thing didn't catch on, so have to find another area of fear to project.
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Post by missouriboy on Apr 2, 2015 15:38:47 GMT
This is nothing new as the article claims....must have heard this 10 years ago, sensationalism. You and I know this acidohm, but this will be the new mantra. The sea level rise thing didn't catch on, so have to find another area of fear to project. The Mann-Jones team also appear to be resurrecting the AMOC collapse theme. Look for it in the North. It is Easter after all.
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Post by graywolf on Apr 2, 2015 18:57:57 GMT
Heaven forfend that I should hold onto a hope of altering your minds guys but I do kinda feel 'tweaked' about what I've been seeing , since 07's restart in CH4 gains, esp. since the offshore 'chimneys' that Shakhova reported on ( growing from 10m to 1km over 1 year of study) started to manifest in their 'onshore' format across Yamal...... Permafrost is melting. It produces shit when microbial activity restarts in it. End of.
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Post by acidohm on Apr 2, 2015 19:05:13 GMT
Yeah ok....but the temps have been kinda high for 30-40 years....what do you expect!
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Post by graywolf on Apr 2, 2015 19:15:59 GMT
For it not just to carry on 'drip , drip' for ever? We know we have 'capped' reserves of free methane in that mass of permafrost ( Siberian/east Siberian sea) and we are now closer to seeing that gas liberated than we were when this process began. Have you seen the geology under that carpet of material??? Doesn't fill a soul with a lot of confidence does it?
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Post by acidohm on Apr 2, 2015 19:20:45 GMT
The word 'permafrost' is probably misleading, it is not permanent, it didn't start off frozen....a lot of well educated people here reckon it'll likely be frozen again soon, and that man is not entirely responsible for the current thaw.
Also, a search on the net for eg 'thermal history of permafrost' (apologies, couldn't cut and paste the pdf file address) produces papers which in part state the permafrost has been thawing since the end of LIA, despite a rise in temps permafrost has thawed inconsistently and in some cases frozen more, often thawing is associated with surface based human activities, roads, services etc
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Post by graywolf on Apr 3, 2015 10:16:54 GMT
And we see plenty of that on north slope Alaska then ( where the permafrost has now retreated many tens of meters down) or the Northern Eurasian cover which is melting even faster due to the continental HP which extends into the region each summer now ( bringing us wildfires across the regions leading to low albedo of the surface and further promoting melt)
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Post by acidohm on Apr 3, 2015 11:01:39 GMT
But, I assume, you assume this is due to agw and will continue to thaw until co2 is reduced?
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Post by nautonnier on Apr 3, 2015 12:00:17 GMT
I must be slow - but I see no problem in 'permafrost' that formed after the medieval warm period (it is frozen plants and mosses after all not inert rock so it was warmer before it froze) melting back to what it was when those plants were growing. It is just not a problem, methane oxidizes very rapidly in the atmosphere so that is not a problem. There is no warming due to CO2 as 18 years of no increase in temperature shows. So what is the problem? Is potentially more arable land or woodland really a major concern?
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Post by sigurdur on Apr 3, 2015 12:25:52 GMT
We are in an interglacial. Glaciers melt, places thaw. The march of time stops for no one.
There are those that somehow think climate should be in this "static" state. Climate has never been in a static state. It really is amusing how some folks totally ignore the paleo record of past interglacials. Is the record perfect? No, there are resolution problems, to just name one. But the overall trend can be established.
During interglacials sea levels rise, permafrost melts, plants grow and on the cycle goes.
Still amazed at the "surprise" exhibited by some that this happens.
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zaphod
Level 3 Rank
Posts: 210
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Post by zaphod on Apr 4, 2015 21:47:41 GMT
Stark evidence that human impact on climate change is minimal.
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Post by abbyroad on Apr 5, 2015 11:55:29 GMT
And we see plenty of that on north slope Alaska then ( where the permafrost has now retreated many tens of meters down) or the Northern Eurasian cover which is melting even faster due to the continental HP which extends into the region each summer now ( bringing us wildfires across the regions leading to low albedo of the surface and further promoting melt) Melting of this permafrost will also allow for crop planting, gold mining, and building, in areas that are not now open to building or habitation. Are you aware that the permafrost layer, once extended South to at least Delaware, and that as this layer retreated Northward, humanity began to grow and spread through the World. Ice is not needed for humans, it's just that simple. Ice is needed for polar bears, that if the ice disappears, will disappear or morph back into grizzly bears again. Freezing and melt are normal, and needed for species diversification.
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Post by acidohm on Apr 11, 2015 16:03:33 GMT
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