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Post by icefisher on Jun 2, 2015 22:46:05 GMT
Well I will take your inability to clearly state the problem you are addressing as evidence that the problem has even disappeared from your perspective. Obviously you know exactly what I am referring to. For the record there is an unanswered post on the other thread drawing attention to it where I first drew attention to it back in 2013 and all of the previous 2013 discussion is linked by the posts I have recently created. I read those posts but I see no claims by anybody that relate to what you are claiming. Perhaps if you could extract the comment or comments you believe proves otherwise. Thats what I mean by clearly stating what you are objecting to otherwise it seems to be merely a figment of your imagination.
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Post by icefisher on Jun 2, 2015 22:49:25 GMT
I might suggest that a poster whose presence continuously disrupts the otherwise positive atmosphere of a forum by harassing others who otherwise cause no problems. ...that may be thought to be trolling... If you are happy to bask in the glory of group think then we see things differently. Meanwhile I noticed from your earlier comment you appear to be saying you believe planets will orbit around the solar systems center of mass? Otherwise known as a barycenter. Planets orbit around the barycenter in the same sense that the sun wobbles around the barycenter. The planets orbit around the sun and as a result also effectively orbit around the barycenter. Meanwhile, variations are introduced as multiple planets change their relative positions.
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Post by Andrew on Jun 2, 2015 22:52:18 GMT
Obviously you know exactly what I am referring to. For the record there is an unanswered post on the other thread drawing attention to it where I first drew attention to it back in 2013 and all of the previous 2013 discussion is linked by the posts I have recently created. I read those posts but I see no claims by anybody that relate to what you are claiming. Perhaps if you could extract the comment or comments you believe proves otherwise. Thats what I mean by clearly stating what you are objecting to otherwise it seems to be merely a figment of your imagination. For the record i have made it totally clear I have no idea what Nautonnier is talking about and have attempted to find out firstly in 2013 and now in 2015. All I know so far is that this idea involves huge forces, the astronomers are wrong, Svalgaard is wrong, something to do with changing climate, orbits around barycenters, and tides.
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Post by Andrew on Jun 2, 2015 22:58:42 GMT
If you are happy to bask in the glory of group think then we see things differently. Meanwhile I noticed from your earlier comment you appear to be saying you believe planets will orbit around the solar systems center of mass? Otherwise known as a barycenter. Planets orbit around the barycenter in the same sense that the sun wobbles around the barycenter. The planets orbit around the sun and as a result also effectively orbit around the barycenter. Meanwhile, variations are introduced as multiple planets change their relative positions. ?? Please clarify what you are claiming and use SSBC for solar system barycenter where necessary rather than only barycenter
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Post by acidohm on Jun 2, 2015 23:02:10 GMT
Mmmh....think their the same thing....
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Post by icefisher on Jun 2, 2015 23:04:22 GMT
I read those posts but I see no claims by anybody that relate to what you are claiming. Perhaps if you could extract the comment or comments you believe proves otherwise. Thats what I mean by clearly stating what you are objecting to otherwise it seems to be merely a figment of your imagination. For the record i have made it totally clear I have no idea what Nautonnier is talking about and have attempted to find out firstly in 2013 and now in 2015. All I know so far is that this idea involves huge forces, the astronomers are wrong, Svalgaard is wrong, something to do with changing climate, orbits around barycenters, and tides. I personally don't think that Nautonnier's opinion or Astromet's opinion is substantively less supportable than claims of the effects of CO2 held by you and others. If you disagree I suggest you actually read what, for example, Astromet has provided in his summary of astrometeorology and take on specific points there. Nautonnier has clearly stated that all he has done is offer up the statements of other scientists in the various papers he reads, thus it would be appropo for you to read those papers and take on specific points. It sure would be more productive than inventing strawmen.
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Post by Andrew on Jun 2, 2015 23:10:38 GMT
Mmmh....think their the same thing.... The moon and the earth have a barycenter as does the sun and the earth. Many different barycenters in the solar system but only one SSBC
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Post by Andrew on Jun 2, 2015 23:13:46 GMT
For the record i have made it totally clear I have no idea what Nautonnier is talking about and have attempted to find out firstly in 2013 and now in 2015. All I know so far is that this idea involves huge forces, the astronomers are wrong, Svalgaard is wrong, something to do with changing climate, orbits around barycenters, and tides. I personally don't think that Nautonnier's opinion or Astromet's opinion is substantively less supportable than claims of the effects of CO2 held by you and others. If you disagree I suggest you actually read what, for example, Astromet has provided in his summary of astrometeorology and take on specific points there. Nautonnier has clearly stated that all he has done is offer up the statements of other scientists in the various papers he reads, thus it would be appropo for you to read those papers and take on specific points. It sure would be more productive than inventing strawmen. I see. You act here as the local bully boy to protect the sensibilities of people who are a bit muddled up? Your only purpose here has been to obfuscate and troll your way to a supposed victory! Unbelievable
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Post by acidohm on Jun 2, 2015 23:17:34 GMT
Mmmh....think their the same thing.... The moon and the earth have a barycenter as does the sun and the earth. Many different barycenters in the solar system but only one SSBC True...but isn't it the sum of all solar system barywosits what yields the SSBC??
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Post by icefisher on Jun 2, 2015 23:17:59 GMT
Planets orbit around the barycenter in the same sense that the sun wobbles around the barycenter. The planets orbit around the sun and as a result also effectively orbit around the barycenter. Meanwhile, variations are introduced as multiple planets change their relative positions. ?? Please clarify what you are claiming and use SSBC for solar system barycenter where necessary rather than only barycenter The earth nor the sun orbits around a subset of the barycenter. The SSBC does not relate to any real barycenter but is useful for most purposes as a surrogate for the barycenter in practical applications. . . .but its not precise. So perhaps all practical purposes assuming the planets orbit around the SSBC is good enough. The earth and sun orbits around the barycenter in the sense that the barycenter (SSBC if you will) is an average position of the center mass/energy of the solar system and the average orbit surrounds it. I have no idea why you have a problem with that notion.
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Post by acidohm on Jun 2, 2015 23:19:15 GMT
These in turn have little effect on our tides...apart from the moon, but pull and twist the sun which affect its activity and perhaps our climate....
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Post by icefisher on Jun 2, 2015 23:22:50 GMT
I see. You act here as the local bully boy to protect the sensibilities of people who are a bit muddled up? Your only purpose here has been to obfuscate and troll your way to a supposed victory! Unbelievable Hmmm, a bit Freudian? I am not interested in sensibilities of anybody. I am just trying to figure out what you are railing about. You have mistated, by your own admission, certain points. Further I have searched for support in the posts and threads you have referred me too and still don't know specifically what you are objecting to. Since your response is now going ad hominem against me, I assume the only person around here who was muddled up is you.
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Post by Andrew on Jun 2, 2015 23:27:46 GMT
The moon and the earth have a barycenter as does the sun and the earth. Many different barycenters in the solar system but only one SSBC True...but isn't it the sum of all solar system barywosits what yields the SSBC?? I was going to say yes but the earth moon barycenter only provides a position in space between the moon and the earth. To calculate the SSBC you need to know the positions and masses of all the objects.
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Post by Andrew on Jun 2, 2015 23:32:24 GMT
I see. You act here as the local bully boy to protect the sensibilities of people who are a bit muddled up? Your only purpose here has been to obfuscate and troll your way to a supposed victory! Unbelievable Hmmm, a bit Freudian? I am not interested in sensibilities of anybody. I am just trying to figure out what you are railing about. You have mistated, by your own admission, certain points. Further I have searched for support in the posts and threads you have referred me too and still don't know specifically what you are objecting to. Since your response is now going ad hominem against me, I assume the only person around here who was muddled up is you. And on it goes with the same stupidity. It appears to be your gift to suck me into even more and more of your endless mind gaming toxic stupidity. Obviously Nautonnier is saying something in his mind that is world shattering news unknown to Astronomy and yet after days of effort on my part I have no idea what he is talking about. Even to guess what he might be thinking has brought the troll of trolls down upon me for another repeat of the endless childish baiting i had to put up with the last time i encountered you. Unbelievable
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Post by icefisher on Jun 2, 2015 23:58:59 GMT
And on it goes with the same stupidity. It appears to be your gift to suck me into even more and more of your endless mind gaming toxic stupidity. Obviously Nautonnier is saying something in his mind that is world shattering news unknown to Astronomy and yet after days of effort on my part I have no idea what he is talking about. Even to guess what he might be thinking has brought the troll of trolls down upon me for another repeat of the endless childish baiting i had to put up with the last time i encountered you. Unbelievable I think what Nautonnier is saying in his own mind should be only world shattering to a bunch of fuddy duddies who are completely convinced of only one source of climate variability. Of course we know that what should seldom does when it comes to opinions. Of course that irks the loving bj out of folks with their feet firmly ensconced in concrete on other platforms. So really one of the good aspects of this forum is we self moderate and we don't have a fuddy duddy in charge. As I see it Nautonnier is doing nothing that Dr. Judith Curry is not doing. Dr Curry and Nautonnier probably have different opinions on what is important but both offer up science pieces that shatters the notion that the science is settled. Over the years in this forum both you and Nautonnier's statements have helped refine my own opinions. The main difference has been that I have come closer to Nautonnier's opinions and further from yours. . . .proving life is all about learning and you can learn from anybody if you listen carefully enough.
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