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Post by Andrew on Jul 4, 2015 21:21:41 GMT
What the hell are you you talking about now?? The earth is not falling principally towards the SSBC when all the objects are in the Solar system as they are today. Obviously it is falling principally towards the Sun. I have explained why that is true. The data supports it. Newton agreed. You calculations are wrong. The calculations prove that when only considering gravity the earth is falling precisely towards the gravitational center mass. The only reason it position varies in relationship to the SSBC is because of the inertial movement of all the planets including the earth. If there were no other planets then the earth would be falling towards both the sun and the barycenter because they would by definition be in direct alignment. But gravitationally speaking the earth always falls toward the barycenter, ends up orbiting it whether there are other planets or not. When there are other planets the earth does not gravitationally fall toward the sun but instead the solar system gravitational center but still manages to orbit the sun and the barycenter but on different time scales. You still have not mathematically described how the earth primarily falls toward the sun Andrew and until you do you are going to be wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong! So you want me to believe Newton was wrong and you are unable to see that I have used his law to show you are wrong. Unf**kingbelievable. This has got to be the dumbest board on the entire planet.
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Post by icefisher on Jul 4, 2015 21:25:13 GMT
What the hell are you you talking about now?? The earth is not falling principally towards the SSBC when all the objects are in the Solar system as they are today. Obviously it is falling principally towards the Sun. I have explained why that is true. The data supports it. Newton agreed. Your calculations are wrong. The calculations prove that when only considering gravity the earth is falling precisely towards the gravitational center mass of the solar system. The only reason its position varies in relationship to the SSBC is because of the inertial movement of all the planets including the earth. If there were no other planets then the earth would be falling towards both the sun and the barycenter because they would by definition be in direct alignment. But gravitationally speaking the earth always falls toward the barycenter, ends up orbiting it whether there are other planets or not. When there are other planets the earth does not gravitationally fall toward the sun but instead the solar system gravitational center but still manages to orbit the sun and the barycenter but on different time scales. The earth ends up orbiting the sun precisely because and only because of the fact the sun is also falling toward the barycenter. If the sun were not following the rules of gravity and possess inertia in the direction of the SSBC the earth would not precisely orbit the sun. You still have not mathematically described how the earth primarily falls toward the sun Andrew and until you do you are going to be wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong! The hilarious part of all this is Svalgaard gets this. He offered up his obfuscation but did not participate when the moron of the thread decided to take on the laws of gravity and claim the earth did not fall towards the barycenter. Svalgaard remained silent as this moron (which was probably you under one or your many pseudonyms) figured the laws of gravity were not operational in orbits. Svalgaard's observation that the earth as precisely as can be measured orbited the sun is enabled by the fact that all the objects in the solar system are falling towards the solar systems center of gravity. That is true by definition Andrew. The theoretical pea might account for a millimeter of movement in a million years and since it would be for all intents and purposes identical for both the sun and the earth it would amount to no effect on earths orbit of the sun.
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Post by icefisher on Jul 4, 2015 21:31:21 GMT
So you want me to believe Newton was wrong and you are unable to see that I have used his law to show you are wrong. Unf**kingbelievable. This has got to be the dumbest board on the entire planet. No what I want you to believe is Newton's law is universal and is not unique to the sun.
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Post by Andrew on Jul 4, 2015 21:39:26 GMT
Your calculations are wrong. The calculations prove that when only considering gravity the earth is falling precisely towards the gravitational center mass of the solar system. The only reason its position varies in relationship to the SSBC is because of the inertial movement of all the planets including the earth. If there were no other planets then the earth would be falling towards both the sun and the barycenter because they would by definition be in direct alignment. But gravitationally speaking the earth always falls toward the barycenter, ends up orbiting it whether there are other planets or not. When there are other planets the earth does not gravitationally fall toward the sun but instead the solar system gravitational center but still manages to orbit the sun and the barycenter but on different time scales. The earth ends up orbiting the sun precisely because and only because of the fact the sun is also falling toward the barycenter. If the sun were not following the rules of gravity and possess inertia in the direction of the SSBC the earth would not precisely orbit the sun. You still have not mathematically described how the earth primarily falls toward the sun Andrew and until you do you are going to be wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong! The hilarious part of all this is Svalgaard gets this. He offered up his obfuscation but did not participate when the moron of the thread decided to take on the laws of gravity and claim the earth did not fall towards the barycenter. Svalgaard remained silent as this moron (which was probably you under one or your many pseudonyms) figured the laws of gravity were not operational in orbits. Svalgaard's observation that the earth as precisely as can be measured orbited the sun is enabled by the fact that all the objects in the solar system are falling towards the solar systems center of gravity. That is true by definition Andrew. For heavens sake. Please stop masturbating about Svalgaard and give me a reason why you think Newton was wrong or you go back on ignore. Likewise any more of the following kind of stupidity and you go back on ignore >>I want you to believe is Newton's law is universal and is not unique to the sun >>figured the laws of gravity were not operational in orbits. The laws of gravity are not suspended in orbits. The object is in free fall. Falling under the influence of gravity.
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Post by icefisher on Jul 4, 2015 21:49:39 GMT
The hilarious part of all this is Svalgaard gets this. He offered up his obfuscation but did not participate when the moron of the thread decided to take on the laws of gravity and claim the earth did not fall towards the barycenter. Svalgaard remained silent as this moron (which was probably you under one or your many pseudonyms) figured the laws of gravity were not operational in orbits. Svalgaard's observation that the earth as precisely as can be measured orbited the sun is enabled by the fact that all the objects in the solar system are falling towards the solar systems center of gravity. That is true by definition Andrew. For heavens sake. Please stop masturbating about Svalgaard and give me a reason why you think Newton was wrong or you go back on ignore. Likewise any more of the following kind of stupidity and you go back on ignore >>I want you to believe is Newton's law is universal and is not unique to the sun Andrew the only reason the earth would fall to toward the sun would be under the condition that Newton's law was unique to the sun and did not apply to other objects. However, I already provided you an educational link www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circles/Lesson-3/Newton-s-Law-of-Universal-Gravitation that clearly states: "But Newton's law of universal gravitation extends gravity beyond earth. Newton's law of universal gravitation is about the universality of gravity. Newton's place in the Gravity Hall of Fame is not due to his discovery of gravity, but rather due to his discovery that gravitation is universal. ALL objects attract each other with a force of gravitational attraction. Gravity is universal. This force of gravitational attraction is directly dependent upon the masses of both objects and inversely proportional to the square of the distance that separates their centers."But you choose to ignore this universality and claim the earth falls gravitationally directly at the sun ignoring all other gravitational influences on the earth. there are only two possible things keeping you from recognizing that: Stupidity or pride. You pick which you wish to wear.
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Post by Andrew on Jul 4, 2015 21:55:31 GMT
For heavens sake. Please stop masturbating about Svalgaard and give me a reason why you think Newton was wrong or you go back on ignore. Likewise any more of the following kind of stupidity and you go back on ignore >>I want you to believe is Newton's law is universal and is not unique to the sun Andrew the only reason the earth would fall to toward the sun would be under the condition that Newton's law was unique to the sun and did not apply to other objects. However, I already provided you an educational link www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circles/Lesson-3/Newton-s-Law-of-Universal-Gravitation that clearly states: "But Newton's law of universal gravitation extends gravity beyond earth. Newton's law of universal gravitation is about the universality of gravity. Newton's place in the Gravity Hall of Fame is not due to his discovery of gravity, but rather due to his discovery that gravitation is universal. ALL objects attract each other with a force of gravitational attraction. Gravity is universal. This force of gravitational attraction is directly dependent upon the masses of both objects and inversely proportional to the square of the distance that separates their centers."But you choose to ignore this universality and claim the earth falls gravitationally directly at the sun ignoring all other gravitational influences on the earth. there are only two possible things keeping you from recognizing that: Stupidity or pride. You pick which you wish to wear. >>figured the laws of gravity were not operational in orbits. The laws of gravity are not suspended in orbits. The object is in free fall. Falling under the influence of gravity. If the Earth was not already moving it would move almost directly towards the center of the Sun. Even while it is moving, as it is today, it is falling principally around the center of the Sun. As shown by Newtons gravitation law, as explained by Newton himself as evidenced by the highly accurate data. The Sun and the Earth feel the pull of Neptune almost identically. Neptune cannot cause us to strongly deviate from the Sun because we experience almost the same pull from Neptune as the Sun does. Neptune is 1400 million kilometers away. The small Earth Sun distance only creates a differential pull leading to a few thousand km difference when we are on the Neptune side of our Solar orbit and this is almost totally reversed on the other side of our solar orbit.
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Post by icefisher on Jul 4, 2015 22:21:24 GMT
The laws of gravity are not suspended in orbits. The object is in free fall. Falling under the influence of gravity. Thats correct as in "influence of gravity of all objects combined". If the Earth was not already moving it would move almost directly towards the center of the Sun. Almost being the key word. The actual average variation is about 1/2 of one degree and over the course of one earth orbit of the sun will have moved virtually the same distance toward the solar system's center of gravity as the amount the earth was deflected by its attraction point from the center of the sun. Even while it is moving, as it is today, it is falling principally around the center of the Sun. As shown by Newtons gravitation law, as explained by Newton himself as evidenced by the highly accurate data Actually while the results are the same you have the concept exactly backwards. The earth is falling toward the solar system center of gravity and the sun is moving there at virtually the same rate.
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Post by Andrew on Jul 4, 2015 22:36:42 GMT
The laws of gravity are not suspended in orbits. The object is in free fall. Falling under the influence of gravity. Thats correct as in "influence of gravity of all objects combined". What does that quoted text mean? If the Earth was not already moving it would move almost directly towards the center of the Sun. Almost being the key word. The actual average variation is about 1/2 of one degree and over the course of one earth orbit of the sun will have moved virtually the same distance toward the solar system's center of gravity as the amount the earth was deflected by its attraction point from the center of the sun. Even while it is moving, as it is today, it is falling principally around the center of the Sun. As shown by Newtons gravitation law, as explained by Newton himself as evidenced by the highly accurate data Actually while the results are the same you have the concept exactly backwards. The earth is falling toward the solar system center of gravity and the sun is moving there at virtually the same rate. >>Thats correct as in "influence of gravity of all objects combined". What does that quoted text mean? >>The actual average variation is about 1/2 of one degree and over the course of one earth orbit of the sun will have moved virtually the same distance toward the solar system's center of gravity as the amount the earth was deflected by its attraction point from the center of the sun. I cannot understand what you are getting at >> Actually while the results are the same you have the concept exactly backwards. The earth is falling toward the solar system center of gravity and the sun is moving there at virtually the same rate. If the SSBC was a gravitational center for the purposes of the Earths orbit 1. Newton would be wrong to say the focus of the earths orbit was the gravitational centers of the Sun mercury and Venus 2. Newtons Universal gravity law would be wrong 3. It would stick out like dogs balls in the Earth Sun distance data.
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Post by sigurdur on Jul 4, 2015 23:15:38 GMT
Ok, let's make this interesting.
During MIS-6, the temperature of earth was approx 5.0C higher than the present interglacial. Did a variation in orbit cause the temperature to be so much higher?
During MIS-11, the temperature of the earth was similar to today's temperature. MIS-6 lasted approx 12,000 years, MIS-11 lasted approx 44,000 years.
Why the variation?
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Post by Andrew on Jul 4, 2015 23:40:01 GMT
Ok, let's make this interesting. During MIS-6, the temperature of earth was approx 5.0C higher than the present interglacial. Did a variation in orbit cause the temperature to be so much higher? During MIS-11, the temperature of the earth was similar to today's temperature. MIS-6 lasted approx 12,000 years, MIS-11 lasted approx 44,000 years. Why the variation? So yet more derailing. Surprise surprise As far as the sun's movement around the Solar System, there is general disagreement among astronomers. How about for once you show you have the balls to stand by what you claimed earlier about the topic being controversial and show me one single astronomer who agrees with you? How hard can it be?
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Post by sigurdur on Jul 4, 2015 23:55:12 GMT
Andrew Svalgaard thinks one thing, Geoff thinks another. I am not at all sure what the hell you think. I am SURE you have piss poor decorum.
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Post by icefisher on Jul 4, 2015 23:57:35 GMT
The laws of gravity are not suspended in orbits. The object is in free fall. Falling under the influence of gravity. Yes but the only way it could be falling in the direction of the sun would be (considering of the universal nature of gravity) if there were no masses outside of the direct line from the center of the earth to the sun. end of story because that is hardly ever the case. If the Earth was not already moving it would move almost directly towards the center of the Sun. Even while it is moving, as it is today, it is falling principally around the center of the Sun. As shown by Newtons gravitation law, as explained by Newton himself as evidenced by the highly accurate data. The highly accurate data is a consequence of sun being influenced by the solar systems center of gravity in virtually the same way the earth is. Not because the earth is falling directly at the center of the sun. You can calculate it. The angle of formed by a line from the center of the earth to the center of the sun and another line from the center of the earth to the solar systems center of gravity when that point is on the surface of the sun is about 1/2 of one degree or about . without other influences it would take both the sun and the earth about 700,000 km from the center of the sun. It would take 12 years for the sun to make that journey in a straight line towards Jupiter. In one year the time of one earth orbit it would have traveled about 60km. You estimated in an earlier post that the sun would travel about 40km in 243 days which equals 60km in one year. Meanwhile the sun is traveling towards this same point on the surface of the sun. It will have completed 1/12th the journey from the center of the sun due to Jupiters influence in one year also because of the net attraction point being at that point on the surface of the sun. The net result is accurate calculations of the earth orbiting the sun while in fact its orbiting the solar system center of gravity. The accuracy of the earths precise orbit of the sun is a mathematical artifact from using identical variables. The point of attraction is the solar system center of gravity not the center of the sun. I could only be the center of the sun if the sun was unique in its gravitational attraction and and only if all other objects with gravitational influence were in line with the line connecting the center of the sun with the center of the earth. The Sun and the Earth feel the pull of Neptune almost identically. Neptune cannot cause us to strongly deviate from the Sun because we experience almost the same pull from Neptune as the Sun does. Neptune is 1400 million kilometers away. The small Earth Sun distance only creates a differential pull leading to a few thousand km difference when we are on the Neptune side of our Solar orbit and this is almost totally reversed on the other side of our solar orbit. I have no dispute with that. Its an artifact of the universal nature of gravity not an artifact of the center of the sun being the attraction point for the earth.
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Post by Andrew on Jul 5, 2015 0:01:31 GMT
Andrew Svalgaard thinks one thing, Geoff thinks another. I am not at all sure what the hell you think. I am SURE you have piss poor decorum. Geoff and Svalgaard think the Sun wobbles Where are the astronomers who disagree? Come on. Stop making out I am the one who is impolite and back up what you have claimed by finding one of these strange astronomers who disputes the laws of physics.
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Post by Andrew on Jul 5, 2015 0:07:40 GMT
The laws of gravity are not suspended in orbits. The object is in free fall. Falling under the influence of gravity. Yes but the only way it could be falling in the direction of the sun would be (considering of the universal nature of gravity) if there were no masses outside of the direct line from the center of the earth to the sun. end of story because that is hardly ever the case. If the Earth was not already moving it would move almost directly towards the center of the Sun. Even while it is moving, as it is today, it is falling principally around the center of the Sun. As shown by Newtons gravitation law, as explained by Newton himself as evidenced by the highly accurate data. The highly accurate data is a consequence of sun being influenced by the solar systems center of gravity in virtually the same way the earth is. Not because the earth is falling directly at the center of the sun. You can calculate it. The angle of formed by a line from the center of the earth to the center of the sun and another line from the center of the earth to the solar systems center of gravity when that point is on the surface of the sun is about 1/2 of one degree or about . without other influences it would take both the sun and the earth about 700,000 km from the center of the sun. It would take 12 years for the sun to make that journey in a straight line towards Jupiter. In one year the time of one earth orbit it would have traveled about 60km. You estimated in an earlier post that the sun would travel about 40km in 243 days which equals 60km in one year. Meanwhile the sun is traveling towards this same point on the surface of the sun. It will have completed 1/12th the journey from the center of the sun due to Jupiters influence in one year also because of the net attraction point being at that point on the surface of the sun. The net result is accurate calculations of the earth orbiting the sun while in fact its orbiting the solar system center of gravity. The accuracy of the earths precise orbit of the sun is a mathematical artifact from using identical variables. The point of attraction is the solar system center of gravity not the center of the sun. I could only be the center of the sun if the sun was unique in its gravitational attraction and and only if all other objects with gravitational influence were in line with the line connecting the center of the sun with the center of the earth. The Sun and the Earth feel the pull of Neptune almost identically. Neptune cannot cause us to strongly deviate from the Sun because we experience almost the same pull from Neptune as the Sun does. Neptune is 1400 million kilometers away. The small Earth Sun distance only creates a differential pull leading to a few thousand km difference when we are on the Neptune side of our Solar orbit and this is almost totally reversed on the other side of our solar orbit. I have no dispute with that. Its an artifact of the universal nature of gravity not an artifact of the center of the sun being the attraction point for the earth. >>Yes but the only way it could be falling in the direction of the sun I have said: Almost towards the Sun principally around the Sun I have also said Newton said it would be falling towards the centers of gravity of the Sun Mercury and venus. (which is not true but it is sufficiently near) If you cannot understand language this conversation is impossible. You need to read what I write rather than answer like you are writing a work of fiction. It is totally insane that after weeks of talking to you we have not resolved anything at all. Stop inventing what I say. >>Yes but the only way it could be falling in the direction of the sun would be (considering of the universal nature of gravity) if there were no masses outside of the direct line from the center of the earth to the sun. end of story because that is hardly ever the case. It is insane that you write this stuff. I have told you countless times the planets have an impact upon the Earth and yet you continue to repeat the same stupid things.
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Post by icefisher on Jul 5, 2015 0:12:00 GMT
1. Newton would be wrong to say the focus of the earths orbit was the gravitational centers of the Sun mercury and Venus 2. Newtons Universal gravity law would be wrong 3. It would stick out like dogs balls in the Earth Sun distance data.I would say Newton's universal law of gravity would be wrong if one could not make a case for everything inside of earths orbit being located at one of the interior focal points of earth's orbit of the solar system center of gravity since everything is orbiting the same thing. Thats just an artifact of geometry. No sense complicating this to cover up your incorrect statements Andrew. The earth can only be gravitationally falling to the center of the sun if and only if there are no other objects exerting gravitational pull on the earth that are not in line with the pull of the sun. End of story. Everything else is obfuscation. The concept is so simple one could easily teach it to a third grader. By the twelfth grade my class was making these kinds of calculations easily.
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