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Post by missouriboy on May 18, 2021 2:26:05 GMT
An Old Paradigm is Dying? This will require several readings. Say it ain't so Acid. North Atlantic NonsenseWunsch might well also have commented that the strongest heat flux from the Gulf Stream to the atmosphere occurs in the western ocean to the south of Nova Scotia, where sun-warmed water from low latitudes encounters very cold polar air. This process is dominated by latent heat of evaporation and is an anomaly of global scale – but along the coasts of western Europe there is little or no heat remaining in he ocean to transfer to the atmosphere.[10] Consequently, it is clear that the popular image of a broad Gulf Stream sweeping eastwards across the Atlantic Ocean at about 45oN, bearing heat gained in the tropics to maintain Europe’s maritime climate, is unhelpful. So the myth of the maritime, equable climate brought to Europe by the Gulf Stream really needs to be seen for what it is – a myth. wattsupwiththat.com/2021/05/14/north-atlantic-nonsense/So ... as Big Joe has said. It's water vapor with its embedded heat that is shed to the atmosphere from select oceanic locations that warms many areas of the World. Is this the reason that global tropospheric temperatures follow ENSO? As the ENSO areas are the largest water vapor recharge area of the Globe during El Ninos ... and the cutoff of this water vapor during La Ninas results in Global cooling. Cold oceans may set base temperatures, but they do not recharge tropospheric heat. El Ninos = warm and wet. La Ninas = cold and dry. Regionally concentrated, but globally felt. This seems to be music worth dancing to.
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Post by nonentropic on May 18, 2021 2:59:02 GMT
what isn't a myth is the impact of seawater temperature on the nearshore climate.
The question I had when reading this article was not around the location of the warm currents' temperature loss but the amount of energy transported away from the solar energy factory in the equatorial regions. If you look at Willis E work you can see the neutral latitude line of solar gain/loss now without energy being transported the thermal gradient would be much greater. In the atmosphere, we have the Hadley the Feral, etc. In the ocean we have currents. Why the debate about a warm current west of Europe which some say is not so warm. Sakhalin island was a place where a friend worked for several years logging wells it was permafrost to the sea edge, Latitude not so different from London. The sea temperature matters!
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Post by missouriboy on May 18, 2021 3:39:17 GMT
what isn't a myth is the impact of seawater temperature on the nearshore climate. The question I had when reading this article was not around the location of the warm currents' temperature loss but the amount of energy transported away from the solar energy factory in the equatorial regions. If you look at Willis E work you can see the neutral latitude line of solar gain/loss now without energy being transported the thermal gradient would be much greater. In the atmosphere, we have the Hadley the Feral, etc. In the ocean we have currents. Why the debate about a warm current west of Europe which some say is not so warm. Sakhalin island was a place where a friend worked for several years logging wells it was permafrost to the sea edge, Latitude not so different from London. The sea temperature matters! Yes. No doubt that ocean temps set the coastal base temps. But generally westerly circulation brings warmer air to London, while the same westerly circulation off the Asian plateau brings dryer-colder air to Sakhalin. Pressure systems set the flow pattern. Southerly flow off the gulf of Mexico is why eastern north America is generally wet east of the 100th meridian.
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Post by nautonnier on May 19, 2021 14:39:12 GMT
From a 'discussion' on WUWT..... " The Back Radiation idiocy
I was a bit reluctant to write this article, since it is certainly a horribly annoying issue. There are no insights to be gained here, at least not with regard to climate science. It is only about cleaning up a horrible mess. The only thing making it worthwhile is in pointing out how stupid people are. And with people I mean "experts".
You may have heard that the GHE shall violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics, since the relatively cold atmosphere is supposed to warm the warmer surface. Heat does not flow from cold to warm, you know. The discussion on it is endless and equally useless. Then there are people who deny back radiation all together, and others who "prove" the GHE by measuring back radiation in some way. On top of that there are people who find a flaw in the back radiation based GHE and claim to have falsified the GHE altogether. It is a perfect shit show!
The cause for all this mess originates from the claim that "back radiation" would cause the GHE. That is a "consensus science" claim. The German term "fremdschämen" would most accurately describe how I feel about it. It is idiocy by the power of 4. Let us straighten this out once and for all in three simple steps.
Radiation is a function of temperature, as the Stefan-Boltzmann law tells us. Thus "back radiation" is a function of the temperature of the atmosphere. I hope we can all agree so far. The temperature of the atmosphere is a function of the surface temperature. At least the climate models have it that way. Yes there is this discussion on the "hot spot", which is a mess on its own. But obviously atmosphere- and surface temperatures are interconnected. If you try to explain the surface temperature with back radiation, you eventually have gone full circle!!!
It is indeed that damn simple! It is circular reasoning par excellence. Of course in "climate science" circular reasoning is not circular reasoning, but a "feedback", which seems to be a "scientific" discipline on its own. It is certainly a gift that keeps on giving, as long as you can fool donators you were on to something. That should be enough to sort out the mess.
Just in case it is not, we can iterate the perspectives on the idiocy. What would happen with "back radiation" if temperatures were lower? Obviously it would go down. The same thing inverted if temperatures went up. Maybe you get the point now."www.greenhousedefect.com/2/the-back-radiation-idiocy
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Post by nautonnier on May 19, 2021 16:21:16 GMT
So imagine - it is early morning in the Lincolnshire area of UK and there is a 300ft thick layer of stratus base at 500ft. This is completely normal early morning. As the sun comes up it is expected to 'burn off' the cloud layer.
What does that mean?
The more energetic energy from the Sun warms the cloud droplets until they change phase to vapor. What they have done is absorb sufficient heat to change phase. This is 'latent heat' so no temperature increase just the phase change. So the 300ft thick layer of stratus base at 500ft is now a 300ft thick layer of 100% humidity base at 500ft with a high enthalpy and it is a latent heat layer.
English is a capable language unfortunately though there are areas where it can be extremely imprecise. So heat is not necessarily hot as in higher temperature. However, the colloquial meanings are often assumed even in scientific papers. I think that this is the reason for the 'tropospheric hot spot'. Perhaps like the layer of high enthalpy high latent heat that is the remnant of burned off stratus, the 'tropospheric hot spot' is also same temperature but a lot of extra latent heat in a high enthalpy 'bubble'?
What does the team think?
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Post by missouriboy on May 19, 2021 17:04:21 GMT
Regardless of backradiation, the distribution of tropical and sub-tropical oceans are the primary heat engine of the atmosphere. Maps of "sunlight reaching the surface" (1) and average January cloud cover (2), together with general albedo of water (6%) versus land (> earth average of 31%). The eastern Pacific (largely south of the equator) stands out. Not surprising that global and tropical temperatures follow ENSO. No matter what the season, the vast majority of the invisible water vapor in the atmosphere is contained in the lowest mile or two from its source at the surface. At any one instant, the Earth's atmosphere contains 37.5 million-billion gallons of water vapor - enough to cover the entire surface of the planet with 1 inch of rain if condensed.
The percentage of water vapor in air varies based on temperature. The percent of water vapor in the cold Arctic and Antarctic (and highest Alpine regions) may reach as low as 0.2 percent while the warmest tropical air may contain up to 4 percent water vapor.The lowest water vapor value is 5x the magic molecule's 0.04%, whille the later is 100x. eclipsophile.com/global-cloud-cover/
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Post by Ratty on May 24, 2021 23:16:43 GMT
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Post by missouriboy on May 25, 2021 0:07:17 GMT
They obviously don't read NASA reports on the effects of solar activity on the upper layers of the atmosphere. Interesting surname for Charl's University atmospheric physicist Petr Pisoft. Reminds me of the Soviet Premier, Dimitri Kissoff, in Dr Strangelove.
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Post by Ratty on May 26, 2021 11:50:09 GMT
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Post by douglavers on May 27, 2021 23:21:10 GMT
The Martians have been a little distracted with discreetly studying strange machines from Earth which have recently appeared on their planet.
However, returning their attention to Earth, they are once again puzzled by the complete illogically of many Earthlings.
-even from a huge distance it is obvious to them that a planetary cooling phase has started. They are baffled as to why this should not be obvious, as for most of the past million cycles so-called "ice ages" have been the norm. Extremely late snowfalls and frost together with "glaciers" now starting to expand should be obvious signals. -They think Earth Governments should be starting to panic over the rate of decline of Earth's magnetic field. They wonder what will happen if a large solar explosion aims directly at Earth - they doubt that the existing electrical grid and much associated machinery would survive. They also think that the declining magnetic field will allow much greater ingress of cosmic particle radiation. They believe this would be a key trigger for major planetary cooling by increasing lower troposphere cloud cover. -They wonder at the number of Earth Governments now advocating "100% renewable energy". A large number of industrial processes are entirely dependant on reliable cheap power, which "renewable energy" is in general completely unable to provide. They think that perhaps Earthlings simply want to return to a pre-industrial life style. They think this is quite heroic, in view of the hunger, disease and catastrophic population decline this would entail. - Looking at metal production statistics, and the declining rate of exploration success, they do not think the complete electrification of transport machines is anywhere near possible. There is simply insufficient copper available, not to mention supply of "rare earth" elements. While understanding the meaning of "rare earth", they are quite puzzled by the name.
Anyhow, Earthlings have their good wishes, and they hope the "muddle through" policies will work, without holding much confidence.
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Post by missouriboy on May 28, 2021 0:39:35 GMT
The Martians have been a little distracted with discreetly studying strange machines from Earth which have recently appeared on their planet. However, returning their attention to Earth, they are once again puzzled by the complete illogically of many Earthlings. -even from a huge distance it is obvious to them that a planetary cooling phase has started. They are baffled as to why this should not be obvious, as for most of the past million cycles so-called "ice ages" have been the norm. Extremely late snowfalls and frost together with "glaciers" now starting to expand should be obvious signals. -They think Earth Governments should be starting to panic over the rate of decline of Earth's magnetic field. They wonder what will happen if a large solar explosion aims directly at Earth - they doubt that the existing electrical grid and much associated machinery would survive. They also think that the declining magnetic field will allow much greater ingress of cosmic particle radiation. They believe this would be a key trigger for major planetary cooling by increasing lower troposphere cloud cover. -They wonder at the number of Earth Governments now advocating "100% renewable energy". A large number of industrial processes are entirely dependant on reliable cheap power, which "renewable energy" is in general completely unable to provide. They think that perhaps Earthlings simply want to return to a pre-industrial life style. They think this is quite heroic, in view of the hunger, disease and catastrophic population decline this would entail. - Looking at metal production statistics, and the declining rate of exploration success, they do not think the complete electrification of transport machines is anywhere near possible. There is simply insufficient copper available, not to mention supply of "rare earth" elements. While understanding the meaning of "rare earth", they are quite puzzled by the name. Anyhow, Earthlings have their good wishes, and they hope the "muddle through" policies will work, without holding much confidence. Are the Martians taking house guests?
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Post by gridley on May 28, 2021 11:51:04 GMT
Are the Martians taking house guests? Elon Musk seems to think they will. :-)
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Post by missouriboy on May 28, 2021 14:16:41 GMT
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Post by nautonnier on May 30, 2021 14:45:22 GMT
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 1, 2021 2:46:15 GMT
Nice to see someone taking on the Climate Frauds.
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