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Post by sigurdur on Jun 24, 2017 3:42:44 GMT
I would love to be able to use solar. Alas, won't work up here so we have to use coal. Wind is ok when it is blowing, but the intermittent nature has to drive the grid nuts! www.minnkota.com/wind/index.htm
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Post by nautonnier on Jun 24, 2017 4:19:52 GMT
Good discussion. I'm considering panels for our current home. We had them at the last place and were happy with the output over about eight years, most of the time in credit with the power company. While Solar PV may be interesting look at getting water heating panels. We have solar water heating panels for the domestic hot water and pool. The domestic hot water is easily up to 130F with an inline water heater downstream of the storage tank for when there is high demand. The pool is usable most of the year with a larger lower level solar water heater. If the pool solar water heating is put to the hot tub it can take it to uncomfortably hot >110F in 2 - 3 hours. I would think you would get similar results in Brisbane as in Central Florida.
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Post by Ratty on Jun 24, 2017 6:35:07 GMT
Good discussion. I'm considering panels for our current home. We had them at the last place and were happy with the output over about eight years, most of the time in credit with the power company. While Solar PV may be interesting look at getting water heating panels. We have solar water heating panels for the domestic hot water and pool. The domestic hot water is easily up to 130F with an inline water heater downstream of the storage tank for when there is high demand. The pool is usable most of the year with a larger lower level solar water heater. If the pool solar water heating is put to the hot tub it can take it to uncomfortably hot >110F in 2 - 3 hours. I would think you would get similar results in Brisbane as in Central Florida. We are on bottled gas with an instant burner, Naut. Too difficult a conversion. We've had solar HW before but last two places have been instant gas.
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Post by Ratty on Jun 24, 2017 6:51:09 GMT
Good discussion. I'm considering panels for our current home. We had them at the last place and were happy with the output over about eight years, most of the time in credit with the power company. Did you ever figure out what the payback time was or was likely to be after 8 years of use? I did that before we had the panels fitted, Missouri. The payback time was so far out into the future, I figured we would never cover the initial expense and would likely have to replace panels before we were in positive territory. PS: Panels are SOOOOOOOO much cheaper now. I might do the sums again. From my research, it looks like we could almost treble the capacity for less than half what we paid at the old place.
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Post by icefisher on Jun 24, 2017 20:08:35 GMT
While Solar PV may be interesting look at getting water heating panels. We have solar water heating panels for the domestic hot water and pool. The domestic hot water is easily up to 130F with an inline water heater downstream of the storage tank for when there is high demand. The pool is usable most of the year with a larger lower level solar water heater. If the pool solar water heating is put to the hot tub it can take it to uncomfortably hot >110F in 2 - 3 hours. I would think you would get similar results in Brisbane as in Central Florida. We are on bottled gas with an instant burner, Naut. Too difficult a conversion. We've had solar HW before but last two places have been instant gas. Why is instant gas a difficult upgrade?
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Post by Ratty on Jun 24, 2017 22:59:13 GMT
[Snip ] Why is instant gas a difficult upgrade? It's only my opinion, IceFisher. ** I haven't spoken to anyone about it. The instant unit is recessed into an outside wall and is coming up to ten years old. When it gives up the ghost, I'll certainly ask a few questions but it will probably be easier, cheaper and neater to replace it with a similar unit. ** not worth all that much, I know.
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Post by icefisher on Jun 25, 2017 2:54:02 GMT
Re: Solar. I moved back to the US just about a year ago, and I bought I house in the East Bay Area. I bought solar - as much as would fit on my roof. On Monday, PG&E notified me that I was clear to turn it on, which is great because we're in a heat wave. So what I've noted from my panels, configured as they are, and what I think actually is helped by people using Solar: By 10:00 AM, I am producing over 2 KW of power. That's much more than my house is using during the times that the air conditioner pump is not running. So I'm a net producer of power until the A/C kicks in, then I'm a net consumer. Overall, throughout the heat of the day, I'm a net producer of power so that the reading on my electric meter is lower at 5:00 PM than it is at 8:00 AM. The peak times for power consumption on the grid are also my peak hours for production. Overall, throughout the course of a day, I now consume a little more than I produce, but when the weather is back down to normal, I actually expect that to change. Having worked on Smart Grid, and more recently, working on different ranges of problems that deal with predictive analytics and other machine-learning problems, I think people installing Solar has the potential to reduce the amount of power that must be produced by PG&E, and thus, the amount of fuel burned to produce that electricity. As we've discussed on these boards several times before, it takes hours to spin up a steam generator, so it is not something that can be done quickly. As a result, when Hydro is not available the gas/coal fired generators must be kept generating for peak demand pretty close to round-the-clock. In California, we have hydro capacity, but we're subject to multi-year droughts, so it is not always available. After the rainfall we had this last year, though, it is producing again. Hydro is used to quickly spin up new generation for peak demand hours - it spins up in moments. PG&E knows exactly how many of us install solar panels, and exactly what our generation capacity is. They also know what the weather forecasts are. It becomes a predictive analytics problem for PG&E to ensure they have adequate generation for peak-demand hours. Since our solar peak generation hours coincide with peak-demand hours, it allows them to project for lower demand, and thus produce less power round the clock, thus reducing the overall gas or coal consumption used in electrical generation. They already have to take the weather forecasts into account to project the demand, so this just allows them to also take our power generation capacity into account when projecting. I've changed my thoughts on this fairly recently. I think solar, probably much more effectively than wind, really does facilitate conservation of resources, especially in places like California. It's not likely to be nearly as effective in places like Seattle (one of many former homes for me). If you're curious, the way that PG&E has to handle our generation and bills is that they install a "Net usage" meter. The excess I generate at any moment goes back onto the grid, and I can see negative readings in my current utilization on my meter. When I am consuming more than I generate, of course, I can see a positive number there. At the end of the billing cycle, I just pay for the net consumption, so in effect, PG&E has to pay me the same price as I pay for electricity consumed. I have been a solar advocate now for almost 40 years. Wise solar investment makes a lot of sense. What I am not for is the government determining what to research and who the winners and losers will be. Nothing worse than replacing entrepreneurs with government bureaucrats. Then you do you get corruption and Solyndra. A 50% tax credit makes the government effectively a 50% partner. A section 179 deduction for a business on capital assets (allowed for all businesses with some limits) can be the equivalent of a 30% tax credit. A device used in tax law to encourage businesses to invest. Allowing it for individuals to invest in their homes makes at least as much sense. But no the politicians are always looking for ways to reward supporters with big individually tailored projects.
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Post by Ratty on Jun 25, 2017 13:09:54 GMT
[ Snip ] I have been a solar advocate now for almost 40 years. Wise solar investment makes a lot of sense. What I am not for is the government determining what to research and who the winners and losers will be. Nothing worse than replacing entrepreneurs with government bureaucrats. Then you do you get corruption and Solyndra. A 50% tax credit makes the government effectively a 50% partner. A section 179 deduction for a business on capital assets (allowed for all businesses with some limits) can be the equivalent of a 30% tax credit. A device used in tax law to encourage businesses to invest. Allowing it for individuals to invest in their homes makes at least as much sense. But no the politicians are always looking for ways to reward supporters with big individually tailored projects. Couldn't agree more Ice. If I was younger and wiser ** and building a home, I would have solar power, batteries, solar HWS and might consider a turbine if it didn't annoy the neighbours. All lights (and the electronics?) would run from the batteries. The positioning of the house would be beneficial for SH solar input. My uncle had a dairy and ran a diesel motor to power the milking machine and charge his 24V (I think ?) batteries which powered his lights (and possibly his refrigerator?). It was a while back .... no PV panels then. Many years ago, I had a block of land in a shale area that would have been perfect for an underground house but Mrs Ratty, a gardener, stifled my ambition. We will be married fifty years in December: I know my place. ** and wealthier PS: This was not a considered response and no correspondence will be entered into.
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 26, 2017 3:34:45 GMT
[ Snip ] I have been a solar advocate now for almost 40 years. Wise solar investment makes a lot of sense. What I am not for is the government determining what to research and who the winners and losers will be. Nothing worse than replacing entrepreneurs with government bureaucrats. Then you do you get corruption and Solyndra. A 50% tax credit makes the government effectively a 50% partner. A section 179 deduction for a business on capital assets (allowed for all businesses with some limits) can be the equivalent of a 30% tax credit. A device used in tax law to encourage businesses to invest. Allowing it for individuals to invest in their homes makes at least as much sense. But no the politicians are always looking for ways to reward supporters with big individually tailored projects. Couldn't agree more Ice. If I was younger and wiser ** and building a home, I would have solar power, batteries, solar HWS and might consider a turbine if it didn't annoy the neighbours. All lights (and the electronics?) would run from the batteries. The positioning of the house would be beneficial for SH solar input. My uncle had a dairy and ran a diesel motor to power the milking machine and charge his 24V (I think ?) batteries which powered his lights (and possibly his refrigerator?). It was a while back .... no PV panels then. Many years ago, I had a block of land in a shale area that would have been perfect for an underground house but Mrs Ratty, a gardener, stifled my ambition. We will be married fifty years in December: I know my place. ** and wealthier PS: This was not a considered response and no correspondence will be entered into. Suggest to Mrs Ratty that gardening on the roof could have its advantages. By the way, your grandson is quite the artist. Did he entitle that piece ... Portrait of a Sceptic?
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Post by Ratty on Jun 26, 2017 3:59:49 GMT
[ Snip ] Suggest to Mrs Ratty that gardening on the roof could have its advantages. I did suggest that and she suggested something to do with abstinence. By the way, your grandson is quite the artist. Did he entitle that piece ... Portrait of a Sceptic? No title but did you note the hair on the head? He's too short to see way up there ...... PS: Both his grandfathers have the same christian name, doesn't seem to confuse him or his brother.
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Post by sigurdur on Jun 27, 2017 13:39:01 GMT
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Post by sigurdur on Jun 27, 2017 16:56:42 GMT
Did it really come up censored Code?
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Post by sigurdur on Jun 29, 2017 16:54:38 GMT
It is true Code. I have never observed such a bunch of snow flakes in my life. Temper tantrum that seems to be unending.
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Post by sigurdur on Jun 30, 2017 3:46:17 GMT
It is true Code. I have never observed such a bunch of snow flakes in my life. Temper tantrum that seems to be unending. Perhaps but still Trump is not someone I respect, his recent tweet about the MSNBC reporter was vulgar and not becoming of the office. I agree with you about President Trump. Just as I didn't respect President Obama. Both men are narcissistic. It doesn't change my perception of snow flakes.
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Post by nautonnier on Jun 30, 2017 20:45:08 GMT
It is true Code. I have never observed such a bunch of snow flakes in my life. Temper tantrum that seems to be unending. Perhaps but still Trump is not someone I respect, his recent tweet about the MSNBC reporter was vulgar and not becoming of the office. I think that it is necessary to look beyond the 'up front' content of the tweets and the legacy media response. While the backyard dogs are chasing the meat thrown to them, lots of other things are happening, that, if they paid attention the legacy media would be opposing and drumming up 'opinion' against. As it is Trump says that a legacy female reporter wanted to attend a formal function looking like a car wreck. And off go the trained seals beeping their horns an clapping their flippers, acting as a complete distraction to some of the more effective legislation being issued by Republicans and approved by Trump. While some observers seem to think that this is the unintentional lapses of an unthinking twitter addict, I think that the use of Twitter is a well thought out ploy to get the legacy media distracted; while they think it is them driving the action/reaction. The demonstrable facts that the Legacy media have failed to cover issues that would have played to the Democrat base and given rise to more opposition are proof that this is not an accidental approach by the President. Things are passed while the media and democrat pols are fulminating against trivial They are being played so astutely that they don't realize it. Watch this space with Mueller too.
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