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Post by nautonnier on Aug 15, 2017 9:03:46 GMT
Now everyone getting excited over a 'fish storm' Gert, that will be more of a problem to NW Europe than to the USA. www.alabamawx.com/?p=142119www.nhc.noaa.govHowever, note the infrared escaping to space from the freezing water vapor. A huge amount of energy; a hurricane extracts from the sea 200 times the world electrical generation capactity each day much of it escaping to space.
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 15, 2017 10:39:49 GMT
Does anyone put their faith in hurricane forecasts? Or as Brad Panovich 'tweets': "Please proceed with caution when sharing long range deterministic model forecasts for undeveloped potential tropical systems."
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Post by duwayne on Aug 15, 2017 16:25:06 GMT
Now everyone getting excited over a 'fish storm' Gert, that will be more of a problem to NW Europe than to the USA. www.alabamawx.com/?p=142119www.nhc.noaa.govHowever, note the infrared escaping to space from the freezing water vapor. A huge amount of energy; a hurricane extracts from the sea 200 times the world electrical generation capactity each day much of it escaping to space. This chart doesn't show "infrared escaping from the freezing water vapor". Condensation and freezing do not release latent heat as radiation.
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 15, 2017 16:44:58 GMT
Now everyone getting excited over a 'fish storm' Gert, that will be more of a problem to NW Europe than to the USA. www.alabamawx.com/?p=142119www.nhc.noaa.govHowever, note the infrared escaping to space from the freezing water vapor. A huge amount of energy; a hurricane extracts from the sea 200 times the world electrical generation capactity each day much of it escaping to space. This chart doesn't show "infrared escaping from the freezing water vapor". Condensation and freezing do not release latent heat as radiation. So what does that infrared sensor show then duwayne? Remember that latent heat of fusion is considerable and released as water freezes.
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 15, 2017 17:02:06 GMT
Latent heat becomes sensible heat.
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 15, 2017 18:38:57 GMT
Latent heat becomes sensible heat. Not if there is nothing to conduct it to. The water molecule loses latent heat by radiation - it is the only way to lose it as it cannot be transmitted to O 2 or N 2 by collision as collisions are rare at the top of the troposphere. Besides, the picture is from an infrared sensing satellite - so what is seeing is infrared - that is not HOT as in temperature (the average kinetic energy of molecules of a volume of atmosphere) it is a lot of infrared radiant heat energy - that has no temperature.
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 16, 2017 1:22:32 GMT
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 16, 2017 8:20:33 GMT
Sig, It is amazing how many diagrams there are of latent heat where they talk of 'latent heat being released', yet people still claim that it somehow changes from radiant heat energy (that by definition has no 'temperature') to kinetic energy of gas molecules. At the same time infrared sensing satellites show huge amounts of radiant energy being released as that is what they are 'seeing'. It would be extremely useful to find a paper that details the paths for latent heat energy that is released as the water successively condenses then freezes. It would settle a lot of arguments - from infrared photometry of freezing water much of the energy is radiant heat. Fine - so how does that radiant heat heat the local air as most of the air is transparent to infrared being non-radiative gases. The diagram in your linked explanation shows a graph of temperature which is the average kinetic energy of the gas molecules in a volume of air. So how is that kinetic energy mainly of O2 and N2 affected by water molecules changing state? The latent heat of the water molecules is the vibrational energy of the dipole molecules so how does that translate into kinetic energy of N2 or O2 molecules that cannot absorb radiant heat (infrared photons)? I asked a forecaster researcher friend and got no response
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 16, 2017 13:12:25 GMT
Latent heat has been the discussion by many. I don't pretend to understand it fully. In clouds tho, there is lots of molecules to absorb convection and transfer to radiant.
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Post by duwayne on Aug 16, 2017 15:06:26 GMT
Latent heat becomes sensible heat. Amen. I'm not going to waste time arguing with Nautonnier about a fact that every good scientist and engineer knows. Just look it up.
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 16, 2017 16:30:32 GMT
Latent heat becomes sensible heat. Amen. I'm not going to waste time arguing with Nautonnier about a fact that every good scientist and engineer knows. Just look it up. Sensible heat is just another name for transfer of heat by conduction. In gas terms that means by collision and an addition to another gas molecule of more kinetic energy than it had. Tell me how vibrational energy of a dipole molecule becomes kinetic energy.
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 18, 2017 6:30:20 GMT
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 22, 2017 18:15:51 GMT
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Post by glennkoks on Aug 23, 2017 13:29:43 GMT
This is going to be a bad one for me. Forecasts for over 2' of rain from Harvey as it moves in and stalls over the weekend.
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 23, 2017 14:20:48 GMT
This is going to be a bad one for me. Forecasts for over 2' of rain from Harvey as it moves in and stalls over the weekend. Yes we had one like that a few years ago - only really a rainmaker but in the 3 days of system stalled we got over 28 inches of rain.
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