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Post by socold on Jan 14, 2009 21:31:57 GMT
What we have here is a failure to... go on much farther at all: But doesn't that graph show that returns have increased since 2002!
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Post by slh1234 on Jan 15, 2009 7:25:15 GMT
But how badly has the non-alarmist been outdone by the ones who have been swaying the general populace?
Last Friday, we had a team meeting (which doesn't happen often for us field types). For our activity, we took a trip to the newly reopened California Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco (This is a fantastic museum, btw. I highly recommend it to anyone who comes to San Francisco - especially if you bring your kids).
One section of the museum is dedicated to Global Warming. As you might guess, it is heavily weighted toward global warming alarmism and activism (What in San Francisco doesn't advocate activism?).
Walking through there, it really hit me. It's not science that is presented there. It really is a moral imperative they are pushing. And people have totally bought in. I understand what people are saying about it becoming a religion. In that exhibit, they have presented one side of a scientic argument in such a way that they have made it a moral imperative that people take action on every front from what car they buy to who they elect to office.
I don't think that sort of momentum is something a few letters to congress is going to reverse. There are exhibits like this that indoctrinate visitors every day, and the people there are completely bought in. To reverse the political momentum, you will have to swing that populace visiting places like the California Academy of Sciences ... when the momentum with the populace is reversed, then the politicians will pay attention. But that is no small undertaking.
IMO, it will take years of imperitive evidence to the contrary to reverse that momentum. It's not with the congressmen, it's with the populace. And those who have bought in outnumber the non-alarmists by enough that letters to congress are not enough.
I've made it plain in many of my posts how much I hate politics and especially alarmism that is pushed by politics. But my honest assessment is that this momentum is not something that will be reversed in the years I have left on this earth. I do hope my kids live to see more level heads on this matter, though.
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Post by Belushi TD on Jan 15, 2009 20:21:55 GMT
I actually wrote to my Senators and congress critter AND the Governor of my fair state (Alaska) back several months ago when they were talking about passing the first carbon tax thingy... I think in June or July or somehting like that.
Belushi TD
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Post by jorgekafkazar on Jan 16, 2009 5:33:27 GMT
But how badly has the non-alarmist been outdone by the ones who have been swaying the general populace? Last Friday, we had a team meeting (which doesn't happen often for us field types). For our activity, we took a trip to the newly reopened California Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco (This is a fantastic museum, btw. I highly recommend it to anyone who comes to San Francisco - especially if you bring your kids). One section of the museum is dedicated to Global Warming. As you might guess, it is heavily weighted toward global warming alarmism and activism (What in San Francisco doesn't advocate activism?). Walking through there, it really hit me. It's not science that is presented there. It really is a moral imperative they are pushing. And people have totally bought in. I understand what people are saying about it becoming a religion. In that exhibit, they have presented one side of a scientic argument in such a way that they have made it a moral imperative that people take action on every front from what car they buy to who they elect to office. I don't think that sort of momentum is something a few letters to congress is going to reverse. There are exhibits like this that indoctrinate visitors every day, and the people there are completely bought in. To reverse the political momentum, you will have to swing that populace visiting places like the California Academy of Sciences ... when the momentum with the populace is reversed, then the politicians will pay attention. But that is no small undertaking. IMO, it will take years of imperitive evidence to the contrary to reverse that momentum. It's not with the congressmen, it's with the populace. And those who have bought in outnumber the non-alarmists by enough that letters to congress are not enough. I've made it plain in many of my posts how much I hate politics and especially alarmism that is pushed by politics. But my honest assessment is that this momentum is not something that will be reversed in the years I have left on this earth. I do hope my kids live to see more level heads on this matter, though. If you assume that nothing will happen, and do nothing, then nothing will happen! Write the frogging letter, don't just sit here spewing gloom and doom. Or do you have a better idea? If so, let's hear it.
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Post by jorgekafkazar on Jan 16, 2009 5:34:52 GMT
I actually wrote to my Senators and congress critter AND the Governor of my fair state (Alaska) back several months ago when they were talking about passing the first carbon tax thingy... I think in June or July or somehting like that. Belushi TD Way to go, Belushi. Congratulations! Keep it up.
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Post by jimg on Jan 16, 2009 7:01:09 GMT
Ok. My senators are Boxer and Feinstein. Ya really think they are going to listen?
They could have icicles hanging from their persons and would still be crying for carbon taxes.
And my local rep voted for the last "fiscal stimulus package" because he asked Mitt Romney, and Mitt Romney said that he would probably vote for it. (I did write him asking him to vote against it.)
With the democratic senators having a super majority that is fillibuster proof, we're just going to have to ride this wave until the rest of the populace wakes up.
Hey we have a democracy, and this is what the people voted for. Of course, you should be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it.
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Post by jimg on Jan 16, 2009 7:02:58 GMT
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Post by jorgekafkazar on Jan 16, 2009 7:58:02 GMT
"He tells me that there are plans to make "Atlas Shrugged" into a major motion picture -- it is the only classic novel of recent decades that was never made into a movie." Hollywood will sabotage it, just they way they totally ruined "Starship Troopers." Okay, NOW write a letter?
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Post by jorgekafkazar on Jan 16, 2009 8:07:07 GMT
Ok. My senators are Boxer and Feinstein. Ya really think they are going to listen? They could have icicles hanging from their persons and would still be crying for carbon taxes. And my local rep voted for the last "fiscal stimulus package" because he asked Mitt Romney, and Mitt Romney said that he would probably vote for it. (I did write him asking him to vote against it.) With the democratic senators having a super majority that is fillibuster proof, we're just going to have to ride this wave until the rest of the populace wakes up. Hey we have a democracy, and this is what the people voted for. Of course, you should be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it. I really don't know if they're going to listen or not, nor do I care. I know this: they absolutely will refuse to listen to letters you don't write. You can skip them, if you really want. There's no postage involved. Write a letter anyway. Ride the wave? You might want to at least drag your hand in the water.
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Post by slh1234 on Jan 16, 2009 15:30:39 GMT
But how badly has the non-alarmist been outdone by the ones who have been swaying the general populace? Last Friday, we had a team meeting (which doesn't happen often for us field types). For our activity, we took a trip to the newly reopened California Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco (This is a fantastic museum, btw. I highly recommend it to anyone who comes to San Francisco - especially if you bring your kids). One section of the museum is dedicated to Global Warming. As you might guess, it is heavily weighted toward global warming alarmism and activism (What in San Francisco doesn't advocate activism?). Walking through there, it really hit me. It's not science that is presented there. It really is a moral imperative they are pushing. And people have totally bought in. I understand what people are saying about it becoming a religion. In that exhibit, they have presented one side of a scientic argument in such a way that they have made it a moral imperative that people take action on every front from what car they buy to who they elect to office. I don't think that sort of momentum is something a few letters to congress is going to reverse. There are exhibits like this that indoctrinate visitors every day, and the people there are completely bought in. To reverse the political momentum, you will have to swing that populace visiting places like the California Academy of Sciences ... when the momentum with the populace is reversed, then the politicians will pay attention. But that is no small undertaking. IMO, it will take years of imperitive evidence to the contrary to reverse that momentum. It's not with the congressmen, it's with the populace. And those who have bought in outnumber the non-alarmists by enough that letters to congress are not enough. I've made it plain in many of my posts how much I hate politics and especially alarmism that is pushed by politics. But my honest assessment is that this momentum is not something that will be reversed in the years I have left on this earth. I do hope my kids live to see more level heads on this matter, though. If you assume that nothing will happen, and do nothing, then nothing will happen! Write the frogging letter, don't just sit here spewing gloom and doom. Or do you have a better idea? If so, let's hear it. I have written in the past, even referencing things like the oregon petition. Senator Boxer's letter sounded like a form letter. She'll let me know if the senate decides to consider legislature like this (What the &$%*( is she talking about? They're ALWAYS considering legislature on this matter ... ). My assessment is not doom and gloom - that is the AGW position. My statement was an honest assessment of what I see. Now if I use your tone, I can respond and say "You can blow sunshine all you want, but that isn't going to change the situation."
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Post by jorgekafkazar on Jan 16, 2009 16:18:55 GMT
SLH1234: "My assessment is not doom and gloom - that is the AGW position. My statement was an honest assessment of what I see. Now if I use your tone, I can respond and say "You can blow sunshine all you want, but that isn't going to change the situation." "
Sunshine spreading as a policy, in my experience is a hell of a lot more effective than doom and gloom spreading. There is an outcome grid here:
Possibilities: 1) Your reps won't listen. 2) They will listen. A) You don't write. B) You do write.
Outcomes: 1A) Nil 1B) Nil 2A) Nil 2B) Positive
The only strategy with any chance of positive outcome is B, writing. There are no negative outcomes, other than the tiny effort required to write. You've already expended far more effort on your posts than would be needed to fill out the form and send a short message to all your congressmen. Why is this? Could it be that you are really trying to convince everybody else here not to write?
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Post by pidgey on Jan 16, 2009 16:42:37 GMT
Well, I've written my senators (Inhofe & Coburn) and representative (Sullivan) and we're pretty square on things. It's them other states what's got bad problems...
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Post by magellan on Jan 16, 2009 17:25:40 GMT
Well, I've written my senators (Inhofe & Coburn) and representative (Sullivan) and we're pretty square on things. It's them other states what's got bad problems... Can we trade Senators?
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Post by pidgey on Jan 16, 2009 17:40:35 GMT
No... I'm good, but thanks for asking!
Seriously, if you want to change 'em, then write 'em and tell 'em that you're going to FIRE THEIR A**ES IF THEY DON'T GET ON THE BALL!!!
And then go out there and head up a grass-roots movement like the world's never seen before...
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Post by jimcripwell on Jan 16, 2009 18:14:17 GMT
For Canadians, the email address of their federal MP is name.initial@parl.gc.ca. e.g. for me it is McGuinty.D@parl.gc.ca. HTH.
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