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Post by kiwistonewall on Jan 16, 2009 5:49:00 GMT
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Post by kiwistonewall on Jan 16, 2009 5:54:03 GMT
Of course, this is a thing of the past ;D (Niagara - early 1900's) www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.jsp?cntn_id=110967================================================ The Lakes are currently all at 4C - 4C is that 'magic' temperature when H2O is densest & sinks- then the lake(s) will freeze over quickly - but the deep lakes will take a while for the entire column to reach 4C. Looks like we may have a record for the lakes if things continue cold. The difference between the Great lakes and the arctic is that the arctic is fighting years of heat stored in the oceans, while the Great Lakes can react much more quickly to the current seasons weather/climate.
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Post by kiwistonewall on Jan 16, 2009 6:35:17 GMT
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Post by jimg on Jan 16, 2009 6:48:21 GMT
Well the warmest temp in Wisconsin right now (10:44 PST/12:44 Central) is -5F/-22C. -27F/-33C is the coldest.
With those temps, freezing of the lakes might speed up a little.
Wouldn't that be something. To see Niagra freeze again.
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Post by Pooh on Jan 16, 2009 6:52:14 GMT
Of course, this is a thing of the past ;D (Niagara - early 1900's) The illustration is not, by chance, 1912 or 1913? Lake Ontario nearly froze over in the mid-1970's as I recall . Without lake effect warming, the south shore became extra cold. If that happens, GISS will be busy adjusting the record. ;D Thanks, Kiwi. Must have been 1977.
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Post by kiwistonewall on Jan 16, 2009 8:07:33 GMT
Comparing the Great Lakes on 15 Jan in past years, 2003 was a big freeze so this year looks bigger. Ahead of mean, and most ice for 8 yrs. source: ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/app/WsvPageDsp.cfm?id=11890&Lang=engBut most of all, a huge reversal compared with the past two years. And, NOT EXPECTED by all those models! ;D
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Post by walterdnes on Jan 17, 2009 5:03:49 GMT
Lake Ontario nearly froze over in the mid-1970's as I recall . Without lake effect warming, the south shore became extra cold. If that happens, GISS will be busy adjusting the record. ;D Thanks, Kiwi. Must have been 1977.I moved to Toronto (north shore of Lake Ontario) in 1985. So I missed that. The daily temp records for December 26, 1976 .. February 9, 1977 show Toronto (Pearson Int'l Airport) DAILY HIGH being below 0 C for 46 days in a row including the entire month of January. Ouch. See www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climateData/dailydata_e.html?timeframe=2&StationID=5097&Year=1976&Month=12 and click on "Next Month" to advance. Now we know where the ice-age alarmists got their ideas.
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Post by ron on Jan 17, 2009 6:33:50 GMT
Ohhh yeah, winters were winters back in the 70's here in Boston, Mass. We had the "Blizzard of '78" in (duh) 1978 but then 2 years later we had the deep freeze of 1980. I was a public transportation user that year, and wow. 3170 degree heating days November, December and January 1980/1981. The average between 1872 and 2002 was 2724.5. There were only 6 other winters that were colder over those three months: 1872/3 3242 1876/7 3262 1880/1 3307 1903/4 3192 1904/5 3232 1917/8 3387 Source www.erh.noaa.gov/box/climate/boshdd.shtmlInteresting page here: "Is Boston affected by El Nino, La Nina and Sunspots?" www.erh.noaa.gov/box/effects.htmSeems NOAA thought so in 1998ish.
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Post by kiwistonewall on Jan 18, 2009 9:26:11 GMT
Coldest since 1994, and Erie estimated at 98% covered. www.cleveland.com/weather/Quotes: The temperature in Cleveland hit minus 13 degrees Friday at 8 a.m. That's the coldest since the city's all-time low of minus 20 degrees on Jan. 19, 1994. Jim Kosarik, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Cleveland, estimated the lake is 98 percent covered by ice.
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Post by kiwistonewall on Jan 20, 2009 3:57:08 GMT
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Post by jorgekafkazar on Jan 20, 2009 4:33:52 GMT
Yeah, it's hard to tell, because of the geometry and the weird color-coding, but the diagrams do seem to show more solid ice (red) than predicted. There's not a lot of total ice, yet. Erie's freeze-over is more advanced right now. IIRC, if Erie freezes solid in the next few days, it will beat or tie the earliest 1970's freeze-over date. (1973?) Some years, it doesn't freeze much at all. Some years, they all freeze over.
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Post by kiwistonewall on Jan 20, 2009 22:05:38 GMT
Great Lakes ice density anomaly for the 19th (Blue means ahead of normal) ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/prods/WIS58DPTCT/20090119180000_WIS58DPTCT_0004178243.gifat the 19th there was a small area in Eastern lake Erie which was only 40-60% ice, but the rest was 90%+. I expect next update in a day or so will show Erie frozen to 90%+ all over. This after all those media articles about the lakes never freezing again.. Funny thing though, some of those quotes seem to have disappeared from the Internet lately... ;D
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Post by kiwistonewall on Jan 20, 2009 23:11:00 GMT
Most Ice for 15 yearsGreat lakes 19th Jan 18:00 - not 22nd as labeled! (Time machine?) They update weekly, and have done this early? They may have estimated a few days ahead. Top: Where we are for the season compared to mean: Lower: This year compared with past: Since 1982, only 1994 exceeds current year: Source: ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/app/WsvPageDsp.cfm?id=11890&Lang=engFrom above: Quick Summary: As at 22nd Jan (I know, I Know, its the 19th, but thats what the charts say) Overall: 15 yr max. About twice then mean coverage for this date. Ontario: 4 yr max, 15 if we exclude 20005. Already exceeding midwinter maximum by about 50% more ice. Erie: 13 year max. About 95% and exceeding the mean midwinter extent of 90% Michigan: 13 year max. Already exceeding midwinter maximum by about 10%. Huron: 15 year max. Already exceeding midwinter maximum. Lake Superior: 15 year max. At 35% (mean is 20% for this date) but only half way to the mean winter max of 70% cover.
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Post by jimg on Jan 21, 2009 0:58:18 GMT
Well, if I'm reading the second graph correctly, green line is historical average, then the current ice is about 100% greater than the average.
How's that for anomolous.
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Post by kiwistonewall on Jan 27, 2009 3:29:07 GMT
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