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Post by jimg on May 5, 2009 17:12:47 GMT
Great post bhunter.
My take has been:
The oil companies are told by our politicians, that we detest your business, we will tax any profit you make, we want to force you out of business, ...But, we do expect you to deliver your product to us at a price that we think is reasonable.
Now why would the oil companies want to do business here? And if they choose to, what would motivate them to not want to "stick it" to the consumer. Since they don't know how long they can remain in business.
But alas. We seem to continue to re-elect the same people year after year....
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Post by msphar on May 5, 2009 18:31:39 GMT
ROIs of a year or less seem to be prudent. I tried to look at PV and wind energy as alternative power sources for the home but the ROIs seemed excessive. Looks like I would do better spending the money on some sound oil stocks. Oil will probably remain in demand for longer than I will live despite the recent furor over CO2.
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Post by magellan on May 5, 2009 22:05:24 GMT
And the true value of CO2 is???
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Post by tacoman25 on May 5, 2009 22:31:53 GMT
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Post by donmartin on May 16, 2009 21:35:10 GMT
Did the price of oil at $147 a barrel have anything to do with the demise of the auto industry, and our economy for that matter? Each time the stock market goes up, the price of oil(energy) increases accordingly - entirely unrelated to the cost of production. You can just hear that big oil industry vacuum cleaner at work sucking at the economy. Is it not the case that in the last quarter of 2008 when our economy tanked, Mobil made a profit of 43 billion dollars? That's billions kids - and just one company. In respect of energy, perhaps our governments should take the profit out of oil and become the extractors, producers, and distributors. There may be no other way to end the current recession, which really started in 1980.
I remember in about 1970 an oil company executive told our graduating class there were only 30 years of recoverable oil remaining in the world and therefore energy prices would have to increase. And did they ever. Remember 1974? Lineups at gas stations. Gasoline increasing in price every day.
And we're falling for it again.
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Post by hilbert on May 17, 2009 18:11:34 GMT
At the first Earth Day at my school, we were told the same ("only 25 to 30 years of oil remaining"), although it wasn't by an oil company person.
--hilbert, who has been living in an oil-free world for 9 years
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Post by hilbert on May 17, 2009 18:16:32 GMT
Ah, let's have the efficient government run everything. They are only sucking 5+ trillion--ch, wait, which is bigger, a billion or a trillion?
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Post by nautonnier on May 17, 2009 18:59:11 GMT
Did the price of oil at $147 a barrel have anything to do with the demise of the auto industry, and our economy for that matter? Each time the stock market goes up, the price of oil(energy) increases accordingly - entirely unrelated to the cost of production. You can just hear that big oil industry vacuum cleaner at work sucking at the economy. Is it not the case that in the last quarter of 2008 when our economy tanked, Mobil made a profit of 43 billion dollars? That's billions kids - and just one company. In respect of energy, perhaps our governments should take the profit out of oil and become the extractors, producers, and distributors. There may be no other way to end the current recession, which really started in 1980. I remember in about 1970 an oil company executive told our graduating class there were only 30 years of recoverable oil remaining in the world and therefore energy prices would have to increase. And did they ever. Remember 1974? Lineups at gas stations. Gasoline increasing in price every day. And we're falling for it again. "In respect of energy, perhaps our governments should take the profit out of oil and become the extractors, producers, and distributors. There may be no other way to end the current recession, which really started in 1980."I think you will find that this is the Venezuela, Iran and the normal OPEC model - these governments directly manage the oil companies and use the 'profits' to bribe provide welfare to the people like Kalashnikov factories and Mig fighters. Of course when these government run cartels reduce the supply, the demand forces the price up (their intent) - and in the case of the last 18 months forces the price to an unreal level that cannot be sustained and the market crashes. Leaving these governments with a large bill for Kalashnikov factories and Mig fighters welfare that they cannot meet. The other issue of course is that the value of the US Dollar has plummeted and can be expected to drop further as the Bernanke printing presses generate more paper money against a reducing wealth in an attempt to fund the congress and administration excesses. So as the dollar drops the price of oil in dollars increases. Watch this space for the Chinese yuan to become the reserve currency and oil to be sold in yuan per barrel. A few years hence and China could well be the 'world policeman' and the Chinese president will be 'the most powerful man in the world'.
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Post by donmartin on May 18, 2009 6:32:23 GMT
Western governments and oil companies have been working hand in hand. When oil prices increase, so do tax revenues.
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Post by poitsplace on May 18, 2009 8:52:48 GMT
Western governments and oil companies have been working hand in hand. When oil prices increase, so do tax revenues. Oh please...when ANY prices increase, tax revenues go up. An unfortunate wrench in the works of your conspiracy theory is the reality that increasing oil prices will increase the cost of EVERYTHING and after adjusting for inflation you'll find that it averages out to about the same amount of money.
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Post by icefisher on May 18, 2009 16:24:24 GMT
Western governments and oil companies have been working hand in hand. When oil prices increase, so do tax revenues. Oh please...when ANY prices increase, tax revenues go up. An unfortunate wrench in the works of your conspiracy theory is the reality that increasing oil prices will increase the cost of EVERYTHING and after adjusting for inflation you'll find that it averages out to about the same amount of money. Thats the ultimate outcome but it can take a few years to get there with the oil companies and the governments raking it in. Last thing to go up and still the most important element in prices is the cost of labor. Of course the government is line for that too.
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Post by donmartin on May 18, 2009 16:59:00 GMT
Hello Poitsplace
We're perhaps a bit off thread. However, I am not suggesting existence of a conspiracy. Working in concert under the aegis of convenient mistruths, including AGW, a financial system which now comprises 40% of the GDP, and governments which compete with their citizens, is the more likely scenario. President Eisenhower forewarned us.
A few facts:
--In the past 4 months, oil p/bbl has increased 70%. That's a little more than inflation.
--Real incomes have stagnated since 1990. The consequence thereof is people having to borrow to maintain their standard of living. Yet the government and the "experts" blame the common man for "borrowing too much."
--It is not going too far to suggest that energy in all its forms, particularly oil, is of fundamental importance to our economic welfare and prosperity.
--Since 1990, the oil p/bbl, adjusted for inflation has increased from $37.69 /bbl to$123.88 /bbl in June 2008 ($122.64 in the US). Is that not an increase of somewhere around 300%?
--Government regressive taxation rates, and resultant revenue, by way of tax on gasoline consumption to the "sale" of leases, is connected directly to the increase in price of oil.
--Rather than increasing real incomes, the response to the current economic crisis is to encourage the great unwashed to borrow more. No thought is given to reducing or eliminating taxes of all nature, or reducing the cost of energy, government, or financial services to true market value arrived at in a free market system.
----AGW, together with other control criteria, directly and indirectly, provide enormous current and potential revenues for the energy industry, government, and the financial sector.
--Nationalization is rarely a good solution, but ignominious serfdom is a foreseeable consequence of the absence of popular, and reasonable controls on those sectors.
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Post by donmartin on May 18, 2009 17:10:07 GMT
And I forgot to mention. In just two oil fields, one in each of Canada and Venezuela, there are 3 trillion recoverable barrels of oil (per National Geographic). A well-informed gentleman on another thread advised me he thought it was about 2 or 2.3 trillion. I'll split the difference. That is sufficient to supply the world at its current rate of consumption for 150 years.
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Post by kenfeldman on May 19, 2009 20:32:17 GMT
That $1 million per year that the Global Climate Coalition was spending in 1995 (the year their scientists told them that AGW was real and would be a problem) is nothing compared to what the fossil fuel lobbyists are spending this year. www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000003120026
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Post by icefisher on May 21, 2009 0:02:06 GMT
That $1 million per year that the Global Climate Coalition was spending in 1995 (the year their scientists told them that AGW was real and would be a problem) is nothing compared to what the fossil fuel lobbyists are spending this year. www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000003120026LOL! 37 million on the entire spectrum of their lobbying expenses. . . .no doubt mostly for drilling rights. . . .while Al Gore alone is spending 10 times that to push the AGW agenda. Of course Gore profits directly whereas the oil companies just passes on the increased costs to consumers.
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