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Post by trbixler on Dec 9, 2009 14:24:47 GMT
"EPA chief: US will regulate CO2 with common sense" Oh she made the trip too "Speaking Wednesday at a U.N. climate conference in Copenhagen, Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Lisa Jackson described her agency's decision that greenhouse gases should be regulated as complementary to U.S. legislation — not an effort to supplant the work of Congress." www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i9TuMrvrknh-ZXwqmZ2N-48kff3wD9CFQLKO0
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Post by trbixler on Dec 9, 2009 15:13:53 GMT
This is common sense? Obama and Lisa are in charge here! Lets have a jobs meeting with 10% unemployed. The "science" is settled forget abut CRU I am in charge here!!!!! "Administration Warns of 'Command-and-Control' Regulation Over Emissions" "The Obama administration is warning Congress that if it doesn't move to regulate greenhouse gases, the Environmental Protection Agency will take a "command-and-control" role over the process in way that could hurt business. "www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/09/administration-warns-command-control-regulation-emissions/
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Post by alayna on Dec 9, 2009 17:28:49 GMT
This could actually be good news. In order to meet U.S. CO2 objectives we just have to declare 12 seconds each hour where American citizens are not alowed to exhale. Wala, emissions reduced! ;D I was going to say, don't plants also exhale c02 at night? They need to ban plants now, THEY ARE POLLUTERS. This just gets more unreal everyday. I weep for my children's futures.
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Post by trbixler on Dec 10, 2009 15:23:20 GMT
With no alternative plans in place the results are not good. Skyrocket the cost of energy. But read the comments to see how people feel. "But CONSOL Energy’s political problems are not unique to the mining industry, which has suffered under the Obama Administration. The Environmental Protection Agency is already holding 79 surface mining permits in West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio and Tennessee. The EPA says these permits could violate the Clean Water Act and warrant "enhanced" review. And, agency went even further in October, announcing plans to revoke a permit for the Spruce No. 1 Mine in West Virginia." www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/back-story/2009/dec/09/coal-company-cuts-500-jobs-blames-environmentalist/
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Post by trbixler on Dec 22, 2009 1:11:29 GMT
Very little news on this subject at the moment. "Climate Change Alarmists in Hot Water " "Despite damning evidence that rocks the alarmist climate change theory, the United States continues to move forward with regulating human emitted greenhouse gases. As cap-and-trade legislation is temporarily stalled in the Senate, the Environmental Protection Agency has decided to declare that carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are a danger to humanity, a precursor to regulating every aspect of American life."oregoncatalyst.com/index.php/archives/2900-Climate-Change-Alarmists-in-Hot-Water.html
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Post by sentient on Dec 22, 2009 2:23:23 GMT
Being in the environmental consulting industry with arguably the premier firm (worldwide 70 offices and 1,200 people) about 70% of our work arrives via attorneys. I am working on several cases that will make their way to trial (if they do not settle first).
So I anticipate that without the MSM, with the tedium of case after case, this will work itself out in the fullness of time (think about 5 years on this one, at least). First will come the FOI requests, possible denials, likely followed with litigation. Possibly at the same time, the endangerment finding will be challenged on the problems with how it was promulgated. In particular will come the suppressed report from the insider (name is not coming to me right now). As the CRU cases work their way through the British courts, I expect an aggressive pursuit of the data the finding was based on, and its connection with what does or does not come out in the UK legal system. Next comes how this same data affected the IPCC process.
I doubt anyone expects anything tangible from the UN's investigations, so we may be left with a "food for oil" type discovery process, which will also wend its way through the international courts.
As the entire menagerie of legal actions work their way through, we may find things maturing through the US legal system, perhaps even to the Supreme Court.
Meantime, back at the ranch, Tonto, cleverly disguised as a "seeing eye dawg", will also be watching the imminent implementation of California's AB32 (show begins January 1st), targeting each and every segment of the first "taxpayers" so that they can get their crack at the crumbling artifice as the foundation (the data) is brought into the light of the courts for the second wave of litigation that will eventuate.
As a seller/doer, I have already begun formulating my marketing strategy to the nations largest attorneys to provide technical litigation support, one of our primary sources of revenue.
With the FOI2009.zip files the tip of the Climategate "iceberg", we may just have to wait while the legal gears grind out their delicate but sumptuous sausages. It is likely to be a long and ugly process.
And the show begins!!!!
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Post by hairball on Dec 22, 2009 2:53:08 GMT
Hmm, the poor energy concerns are gonna have to charge us more because we didn't save the Earth: "Electricity bills could go up as a result of the weekend's feeble agreement on climate change at Copenhagen, energy suppliers have warned.[...] E.ON and Centrica [UK energy suppliers] warned that they would not invest the tens of billions of pounds to build expensive new nuclear reactors and clean coal plants at today's carbon price, which is supposed to penalise dirty coal and gas plants. Spot prices are now around €12 (£10) a tonne, close to a six-month low, and experts say that to make building new nuclear reactors financially viable, a price closer to €40 is needed. A spokesman for E.ON said that without government action to tighten carbon markets, companies would wait until ageing reactors and coal plants close over the next decade and until power prices rocket before they made the investment. "It is taking a hell of a risk of the lights going out," he said. "Power prices would go through the roof – they would have to get at a level where we think 'there's money to be made'. But we will get very, very tight [on security of supply]. It's the worst case scenario." " Soooo, if British taxpayers' money isn't used to artificially raise the price/ton of CO2 more than 300% they'll have to pay more for electricity, or freeze to death in the dark. How could we have let Fraudenhagen fail?! www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/21/falling-carbon-price-higher-energy-bills
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Post by poitsplace on Dec 22, 2009 8:31:52 GMT
Yeah, the UK is screwed. They were idiots for pushing climate change legislation. You know...something I don't think most people get is that if we took the approach used by the french (wow, that's something you don't hear every day...not for something positive) and made LOTS of reactors based on the same design...nuclear would cost a LOT less. I read all these moronic studies talking about the increasing costs of nuclear and nobody ever bothers to touch on the fact that each is essentially a prototype. With the vast number of regulations (mostly understandably) placed on nuclear plants, that makes for some VERY expensive prototypes and makes it REALLY hard to regulate them in the first place. Although I'm not sure I believe it, I was reading that some of the french reactors are at energy costs on par with those of some coal plants...remarkable if true. But back to the EPA ruling and the anti-carbon movement in general. I find it very annoying that the society is taking this "one hand tied behind our back" approach. The AGW people are complaining that we've got such incredibly limited resources here in the US and quite frankly, the ONLY resource we're not awash in is oil. Technically we could meet ALL our needs for quite some time with all the coal we have. The stuff literally sells for less than dirt. LOL, sorry the post is all over the place but I'm too lazy to change it
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Post by Ratty on Dec 22, 2009 11:47:21 GMT
LOL, sorry the post is all over the place but I'm too lazy to change it Confession - I am told - is good for the soul. Hope you feel better now ....
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Post by trbixler on Dec 27, 2009 16:46:31 GMT
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Post by curiousgeorge on Dec 27, 2009 17:00:02 GMT
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Post by sentient on Dec 28, 2009 1:44:56 GMT
Folks, this is interesting, very interesting. The MSM has done less than what it is within their power (imagine, downplaying something orders of potential financial magnitude than Madoff), so we are left to watch this wend its slow, inevitable way through the courts.
It is hard to imagine something more fascinating. it will therefore require a vigilance a step beyond our normal level of technical vigilance to track. I am thinking we need a new thread, with the past two posts here in combination with the FOI suit already filed in the UK, and threatened by the SPPI in a few days, possibly titled the:
EARLY SIGNS OF CLIMATE TORTS
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Post by alayna on Dec 28, 2009 7:49:30 GMT
So what becomes of this? It gets tied up in court for years/decades?
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Post by sentient on Dec 28, 2009 14:28:12 GMT
Unfortunately, yes, alayna. There will be a bit of this. Perhaps a lot of it. With the MSM studiously averting their eyes from the heavily cracked foundation underpinning multi-trillion dollar carbon credit trading schemes, not to mention the plethora of institutions erected on this same riven substrate spending billions of our tax$ studying things which may have no relevance to what will undoubtedly be severe, abrupt and wholly natural climate changes anyway.
Until a thorough airing of what this was really all about occurs, and even if it does occur, the slow grinding of the legal gears will proceed. I have seen this play itself out hundreds of times over the past quarter decade in toxic torts. Bizarre positions, craftily polished turds presented as evidence, requiring meticulous removal of layer upon layer of subterfuge to get at the ugly truth. When lots of money is involved, the search for truth is often quite wrenching and slow. And very messy.
Look how long it took to unravel the Hokey Schtick. It was clear something was amiss. For a thousand years it was clear the Little Ice Age and MWP happened, but with one cleverly concocted "Nature Trick" (subterfuge layer) it was all upended. Only to have workers pick away at it until finally even the NRC weighed in that something was wrong. Then, from inside the castle, in their own words, we see in fascinating detail what they did and how they did it. And they still won't admit it. They have no reason to. Their very careers are on the line, assuming it is possible they can weather the storm of their own words and actions. And often, this does indeed happen.
The best advice, in this case, remains the simplest.
Enjoy the interglacial...........while it lasts.
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Post by curiousgeorge on Dec 28, 2009 15:10:49 GMT
A little New Years humor may be in order in connection with this. Quote: We Are the World Makes Comeback in 2010 With a great deal of research and pontification, here is my forecast of what will happen in agriculture in 2010. Have a Happy New Year. Food trends, biofuels, world hunger and mid-term politics converge in 2010: Convinced of the importance of renewable energy, First Lady Michelle Obama converts her White House organic garden into a corn field. Using eight-stack traits, she receives an honorable mention in the National Corn Growers Association yield contest. The Food Channel will focus more on local, organic gardening food trends, leading someone to create an alternative, fast-food, high-protein programming --- the FOX Food Network. USDA will announce an historic agreement to reduce cow flatulence. Wait, I think that already happened ... There will be a tax proposed for cow flatulence in the U.S. Senate. A national agricultural organization will affirm its policy questioning the science behind climate change. Three weeks later that group will issue a news release asking for billions in crop-disaster aid to deal with the worst crop losses to hit since 2009. Monsanto Co. buys Scotts Miracle-Gro and patents a new gene responsible for all lawn grasses. The company starts collecting tech fees from every lawn owner across the country. The U.S. Department of Justice decides it will hold public hearings on the matter sometime in 2016. Meeting the needs of its customers, Deere & Co. will unveil a 32-row air boat planter for 2011, along with the 15000 series harvester-snow plow combine. Eyeing the 2010 congressional races and looking to top last August's rallies on health care, Democratic leaders will roll out a comprehensive immigration reform bill in July. Responding to new data, scientists with the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change release a study showing e-mails are a major emitter of greenhouse-gas emissions. A global issue affecting poverty, world hunger, the environment, the future, dogs and cats living together and life outside our galaxy will cause world leaders to hold a summit in someplace like Rome, Geneva, Copenhagen or Hong Kong where government officials and protestors can keep collecting Marriott points. They will then plan to hold a similar summit in 2011. A hacked email scandal will reveal that Michael Pollan, author of "The Omnivore's Dilemma" and "In Defense of Food," owns stock in Tyson Foods, McDonald's and Wal-Mart. Following a year of slumping prices, livestock and poultry markets will rally after the New York Times writes that meat is trendy again on the East Coast. Conservative pundits will discover the "farmer death panel" provisions in the House climate bill. GOP senators demand more analysis from USDA on the subject. The Global Harvest Initiative buys the copyrights to a song and rolls out its marketing campaign, "We Are the World." Endquote From: www.dtnprogressivefarmer.com/dtnag/common/link.do?symbolicName=/ag/blogs/template1&blogHandle=policy&blogEntryId=8a82c0bc25987ff10125cb6311a30260&showCommentsOverride=falseBTW Sentient, what are your thoughts regarding the potential for a global class action in connection with this? It would seem to me that nearly everyone on the planet would have standing, true?
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