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Post by stranger on May 5, 2010 1:20:54 GMT
Greywolf, your avatar would be well aware that while the Arctic "Red Ocher People" may well have circumnavigated Greenland 6,000 years ago during one of the millennial warming periods, the Inuit or Eskimo - and yes I am aware of both linguistic and tribal differences - did not start migrating east from Western Alaska until about 1,100 years ago.
And at that, another people who lived in a great arc from the Saint Lawrence to the Baltic and beyond may have preceded the Arctic Red Ocher People. So far, we lack anything more substantial than the certain knowledge that something that knew the art of knapping flint went that way as much as 12,000 years ago.
That something was probably human, and probably of European origin, but I would not absolutely rule out bears. Or almost anything else that neither violates the tabulated "rules of nature" we call science, nor statistical probability.
Stranger
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Post by trbixler on May 5, 2010 14:20:20 GMT
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Post by graywolf on May 5, 2010 14:37:44 GMT
I'm all for folk picking/hunting along the edge of the last major ice sheet and making land in Canada/U.S. 16,000yrs ago (as their tools seem to suggest being almost clones of NW France's tools of that period) it is the lack of ice north of Greenland that I take issue with. Anyhoo's it seems I was correct in my 'no recovery' stance as NSIDC latest release shows nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/with this grapg being of special interest psc.apl.washington.edu/ArcticSeaiceVolume/IceVolume.phpif we focus on the 'volume anomaly' you'll see we go into this melt season with as little ice as at the 07' min..........sooooo , as little ice as 07' min spread over a very wide area and in waters that melt ice at an alarming rate eh??? Looks like we should beat 07' in both extent and volume by Sept. (good job I'm not one to say "I told you so..."
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Post by icefisher on May 5, 2010 19:36:43 GMT
I'm all for folk picking/hunting along the edge of the last major ice sheet and making land in Canada/U.S. 16,000yrs ago (as their tools seem to suggest being almost clones of NW France's tools of that period) it is the lack of ice north of Greenland that I take issue with. Anyhoo's it seems I was correct in my 'no recovery' stance as NSIDC latest release shows nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/with this grapg being of special interest psc.apl.washington.edu/ArcticSeaiceVolume/IceVolume.phpif we focus on the 'volume anomaly' you'll see we go into this melt season with as little ice as at the 07' min..........sooooo , as little ice as 07' min spread over a very wide area and in waters that melt ice at an alarming rate eh??? Looks like we should beat 07' in both extent and volume by Sept. (good job I'm not one to say "I told you so..." Will this be your first prediction that comes true?
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Post by rippleeffect on May 6, 2010 16:54:36 GMT
Will this be your first prediction that comes true? Play the lottery enough times and you'll win.
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Post by matt on May 6, 2010 21:20:10 GMT
Looks like we should beat 07' in both extent and volume by Sept. (good job I'm not one to say "I told you so..." Will this be your first prediction that comes true? Graywolf did say that May would tell the tale. So far he's 100% right. Beating 2007 in September extent seems a bit of a stretch. Of course, beating 2007 volume is a done deal. Amazing how some are so blinded by belief that they see the death throes of an ice cap as a recovery.
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Post by icefisher on May 6, 2010 21:31:46 GMT
Will this be your first prediction that comes true? Graywolf did say that May would tell the tale. So far he's 100% right. Beating 2007 in September extent seems a bit of a stretch. Of course, beating 2007 volume is a done deal. Amazing how some are so blinded by belief that they see the death throes of an ice cap as a recovery. I think I heard this last year. Did he change IDs over the winter?
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Post by graywolf on May 6, 2010 21:42:52 GMT
I hate the word 'prediction' , smells of Voodoo and denialistic circumlocution. The facts are there for all to see and all one needs do is 'project' a normal summer onto our current Arctic situation.
This is not 'Majik' people, this is observation of the facts (and cutting the obfuscatory tomes of the majority on here).
May will tell the tale. You cannot spread the volume of 07' over the extent of 2010 and expect it not to be puny ,fragile, vulnerable ice.
End of.
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Post by magellan on May 6, 2010 22:01:13 GMT
I hate the word 'prediction' , smells of Voodoo and denialistic circumlocution. The facts are there for all to see and all one needs do is 'project' a normal summer onto our current Arctic situation. This is not 'Majik' people, this is observation of the facts (and cutting the obfuscatory tomes of the majority on here). May will tell the tale. You cannot spread the volume of 07' over the extent of 2010 and expect it not to be puny ,fragile, vulnerable ice. End of. So Graywolf when do you expect (since you don't like predict) Greenland and the Arctic to exceed that of conditions during the 1930's?
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Post by hunter on May 6, 2010 22:19:20 GMT
I hate the word 'prediction' , smells of Voodoo and denialistic circumlocution. The facts are there for all to see and all one needs do is 'project' a normal summer onto our current Arctic situation. This is not 'Majik' people, this is observation of the facts (and cutting the obfuscatory tomes of the majority on here). May will tell the tale. You cannot spread the volume of 07' over the extent of 2010 and expect it not to be puny ,fragile, vulnerable ice. End of. the question I have for you is this: What will your rationalization to continue the doom about Arctic ice be this time next year?
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Post by icefisher on May 6, 2010 22:20:01 GMT
I hate the word 'prediction' , smells of Voodoo and denialistic circumlocution. The facts are there for all to see and all one needs do is 'project' a normal summer onto our current Arctic situation. This is not 'Majik' people, this is observation of the facts (and cutting the obfuscatory tomes of the majority on here). May will tell the tale. You cannot spread the volume of 07' over the extent of 2010 and expect it not to be puny ,fragile, vulnerable ice. End of. Good of you to bring up 2007. Since folks have been "projecting" since 2007 the demise of arctic ice, to the public any differentiation between prediction and projection has already disappeared and thus your are right your "projections" do sound like "voodoo and denialist circumlocution". Like they say if it walked like a duck in 2008 and quacked like duck in 2009, most likely it will still be a duck in 2010.
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Post by graywolf on May 7, 2010 10:59:39 GMT
Greenland and the 1930's . Tell me about the retreat of the likes of Peterman In the 30's or the collapse of the ice Shelfs along the north shore of Ellesmere.
I'm sure all the folk who live around the Arctic just happened to 'miss' all the open water in the 30's, the fishing fleets didn't notice how the shrimp/cod/makrel changed their breeding grounds etc
It is all a bit odd isn't it? All of the discaplines currently studying the Arctic and none of them are willing to talk about the mountains of evidence of the 30's melt.......I wonder why science is conspiring to hide the truth from us (just wait until someone robs their database and shows us the evidence for a melt similar to todays having taken place and then recovered).
Can you not see that the WUWT article is spreading it a bit 'arctic ice' thin?
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Post by hunter on May 7, 2010 12:38:50 GMT
graywolf, When social manias develop, historical literacy is one of the first casualties. Of course they have ignored the past. Just as your obsession for an apocalyptic future requires you to ignore the lack of evidence for it, those promoting the shabby faith you cling to must make certain you only rely on teir ignorance for your opinions.
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Post by sigurdur on May 7, 2010 13:37:26 GMT
The question is: Did the St Roch sail the northern route of the NW passage in 1944? Did the Germans sail the NE passage in the war? The answer is Yes.
Then it froze over again, and now it is thawing again. And this surprises anyone?
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Post by goldbuster1 on May 7, 2010 14:32:28 GMT
The magnetic pole is getting away from the Artic and is racing towards Russia at 30 miles a years So if the Solar Wind is pushing the Earth mass in a specific direction, we can assume that the earth axis will be less pronounced and the seasons less extreme Further away from the magnetic pole will experience ice melting and closer will get ice forming. Dont be surprice that traditional pole region will be melting its not the CO2 its the Solar wind affecting the magnetic pole location. Same apply to the south pole, it is now very close to Australia... SE Australia will get colder winter and summer science.howstuffworks.com/question782.htm
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