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Post by hairball on Feb 7, 2010 22:46:02 GMT
(coupled with the lowest volume ever measured) Can I see your figures, or will you at least teach me Astral Projection?
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Post by woodstove on Feb 8, 2010 3:27:06 GMT
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Post by hunter on Feb 9, 2010 1:25:12 GMT
The fun thing is how the AGW true believers will glom onto any stat, real fabricated or just plain made up, to declare the validity of their theory of doom.
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Post by jurinko on Feb 9, 2010 19:32:16 GMT
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Post by hairball on Feb 9, 2010 20:31:36 GMT
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Post by kiwistonewall on Feb 17, 2010 0:16:18 GMT
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Post by graywolf on Feb 17, 2010 9:05:53 GMT
explorersweb.com/polar/news.php?id=19105The ice is so poor and fragmented this winter that even intrepid explorers daren't see foot on it! With the ice visibly reduced around Svalbard, and what appears to be an early start to the Arctic Drift to it's NW and down the E. coast of Greenland ,I have to wonder whether we will be closer to an ice free arctic this autumn than the planet has been for many thousands of years. With the last of the 'Old perennial' now on it's way south we will be left with the limited thickness 'new perennial' (as measured by NASA) with it's higher melt temps and , as the article notes, massive fragmentation. At least we may see the NW passage open (deep route) again this Aug as it sounds as though the collapsed perennial there is now very ablated.
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Post by kiwistonewall on Feb 17, 2010 11:54:56 GMT
I've just spent an hour or more looking for (a) current Ice thickness data or (b) Forecast for the current arctic season.
Interestingly, most of the official science sites last made a forecast for the 2008 season and (were so wrong that they) haven't made a forecast since!
Also, thickness data (even with recent publish dates) relates to data that is now several years old.
I draw my own conclusions.
I'd love some links to current forecasts or recent ice thickness data id anyone knows of the posts.
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Post by jimcripwell on Feb 17, 2010 12:16:39 GMT
Kiwi writes "I'd love some links to current forecasts "
So would I. I have twice tried to get interest on WUWT; without success. I have tried writing to Prof. Barber; no answer.
You may have noticed that there is very little ice in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, this season.
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Post by jurinko on Feb 17, 2010 14:37:05 GMT
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Post by hairball on Feb 17, 2010 14:58:47 GMT
Gotta run; Quick glance the US Army seems be giving 5 buoys' worth of current data but they don't seem to say much. Latest data from the moored sonar ends in 2005. I bet the Navy has data from subs that'd give the exact picture. imb.crrel.usace.army.mil/
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Post by kiwistonewall on Feb 17, 2010 23:54:02 GMT
A very good document on the future IceSat-II satellite (still a few years off) where they discuss Sea ice measurements, and the errors with the current satellite. In particular, clouds & snow scatter lasers, making the ice seem thinner. Radar instruments measure the top of the ice, while lasers reflect off the top of the snow. All in all, we do not have very accurate data, and it will be 5-10 years before we do! icesat.gsfc.nasa.gov/icesat2/ICESat-II_Workshop_Report-1.pdf
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Post by kiwistonewall on Feb 17, 2010 23:59:56 GMT
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Post by msphar on Feb 18, 2010 20:49:13 GMT
Is it time to summon Pen for the annual walk about and look-see or is the insurance industry unwilling to fund things anymore ?
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Post by kiwistonewall on Feb 19, 2010 0:04:40 GMT
Cryosat II is due to be launched on the 25th of Feb (Next week) www.esa.int/esaLP/SEMNB5MEG5G_LPcryosat_0.htmlDocument: esamultimedia.esa.int/multimedia/publications/BR199_LR.pdfUnlike the future US Icesat II, Cryosat II only has radar, which detects the ice surface, not the snow surface which requires a laser as well. Any snow will depress the ice surface, making the ice appear thinner than reality. It is important to measure (or, at least estimate) snow cover to calculate an accurate ice depth. In addition, Icesat II will likely do ir visuals to allow weather effect to be allowed for. At least, it appears that the Septics* are designing a satellite that is really going to be accurate. *Septics- Australian rhyming slang for Yanks =Septic Tanks.
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