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Post by karlox on Oct 14, 2010 17:33:12 GMT
Perhaps fear of loss is why people are so reluctant to accept the threat of mans tinkering with the carbon cycle In fact, what it should really mean is fear of what´s coming from China´s and Asian´s model of growth, which just follows the wery well known path and pattern of our historically established capitalist sacred "western civilization"... but much more rather efficient, indeed, due to current tech and med advances and global capitalism as well... world´s power balance shift taking place is the clue, to my opinion. Call it Co2 or AGW... if you wish, that´s for certain just a political shortcut trying to slooow down the inevitable, and rapid global power shift... but planet Earth just won´t take it... it´s a matter of figures, data, projec tions... but it´s much simpler to put the focus on CO2... just trying to tame China and achieving a much --more sustainable global economy -which would certainly expand our western decay rate and due time... That´s politics, that´s a point of view...sorry for that... (since this forum intends to be more scientific-like, which is virtually impossible, in fact ;D) |
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Post by trbixler on Oct 16, 2010 14:21:56 GMT
So tax credits for wind turbins to export the money to China then discover that you do not get the power promised but have lost your money. "China hits back at US clean energy probe"  "The steelworkers said in their filing to the trade office last month that illegal export credits, preferences in bidding, the forced transfer of technology and discrimination against foreign firms give Chinese producers of renewable-energy products an unfair advantage. " www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/8068106/China-hits-back-at-US-clean-energy-probe.html |
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Post by trbixler on Oct 21, 2010 1:58:59 GMT
Every now and then a view of reality. "Wind power mirages" "Bryce points out that we are no more “addicted” to fossil fuels than we are to food, housing and clothing. It’s simply that fossil fuels give us more abundant, reliable and affordable energy, from less land, than any alternatives we have today. They enable us to have jobs, hospitals, cars, schools, factories, offices, stores – and living standards better than royalty enjoyed a mere century ago. As fossil fuel consumption increases, so does agriculture, commerce, mobility, comfort, convenience, health and prosperity. Oil, natural gas, coal and gasoline also give us huge amounts of energy from small tracts of land. One oil well producing just ten barrels a day provides the energy equivalent of electricity from wind turbines on half of Delaware, according to Bryce." canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/28967 |
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Post by poitsplace on Oct 21, 2010 3:17:44 GMT
They also fail to understand that as you add more and more wind turbines...the wind slows down more and more. Then the other rather obvious problem, you run out of good wind sites.
But the 800 pound gorilla in the room is backup power. In order for ANY of this to work without carbon we need to build NUCLEAR PLANTS as backup power. Since nuclear takes 1/20 to 1/10 of the materials and work...its obvious that building the NECESSARY nuclear plants first would save us the trouble for the time being of even bothering with alternatives.
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Post by trbixler on Dec 19, 2010 15:02:26 GMT
Just when you need it well it is only 10% of rated output. Must admit the coal looks to be the work horse at 100 times the wind output. # Time of Maximum Wind Generation 12:00 00:00 # Peak (Max) MW 276 94 # # Total Metered Capacity (MW) 2430 2430 # Data Last Updated : 2010-12-18 16:45 (GMT) www.bmreports.com/bsp/ |
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Post by trbixler on Dec 19, 2010 19:27:49 GMT
You mean there are consequences to political action? Of course more jobs to India and China as skyrocket US energy takes off. Investment in India may be an answer. "Renewables forcing consumer energy price rise in Oregon"  "Customers of Pacific Power will see their electric rates spike 14.5 percent in January. The increase comes in a one-two punch: an 8.4 percent general rate increase state utility regulators approved Friday, and a 6.1 percent increase for increased power costs they are expected to approve Dec. 28. Both take effect Jan. 1." wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/19/renewables-forcing-consumer-energy-price-rise-in-oregon/#more-29711 |
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Post by trbixler on Dec 22, 2010 1:02:43 GMT
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Post by trbixler on Dec 30, 2010 3:28:17 GMT
People freeze to death while the politicos smile at their windmills. Warms the cockles of their? But just think of the windmills! Why do our brit contributors not show any outrage! "Were you to list the factors that distinguish civilisation from barbarism, this would come close to the top: that the elderly are not left to die of cold. By this measure, the United Kingdom is a cruel land. Although we usually have one of the smallest differences between winter and summer temperatures at these latitudes, we also have one of the highest levels of excess winter deaths. Roughly twice as many people, per capita, die here than in Scandanavia and other parts of northern Europe, though our winters are typically milder(1). Even Siberia has lower levels of excess winter deaths than we do(2). Between 25,000 and 30,000 people a year are hastened to the grave by the cold here(3) – this winter it could be much worse." www.celsias.com/article/cold-hearted/ "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" "This is the season for quizzes. So fingers on buzzers, here’s your starter for ten. In percentage terms, how much electricity do Britain’s 3,150 wind turbines supply to the National Grid? Is it: a) five per cent; b) ten per cent; or c) 20 per cent? Come on, I’m going to have to hurry you. No conferring. Time’s up. The correct answer is: none of the above. Yesterday afternoon, the figure was just 1.6 per cent, according to the official website of the wholesale electricity market."  A whole lot of wind: 'They have been consuming more electricity than they generate' www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1342032/You-dont-need-weatherman-know-way-wind-blows.html#ixzz19VxJxxFA |
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Post by hunterson on Dec 30, 2010 13:32:19 GMT
People freeze to death while the politicos smile at their windmills. Warms the cockles of their? But just think of the windmills! Why do our brit contributors not show any outrage! "Were you to list the factors that distinguish civilisation from barbarism, this would come close to the top: that the elderly are not left to die of cold. By this measure, the United Kingdom is a cruel land. Although we usually have one of the smallest differences between winter and summer temperatures at these latitudes, we also have one of the highest levels of excess winter deaths. Roughly twice as many people, per capita, die here than in Scandanavia and other parts of northern Europe, though our winters are typically milder(1). Even Siberia has lower levels of excess winter deaths than we do(2). Between 25,000 and 30,000 people a year are hastened to the grave by the cold here(3) – this winter it could be much worse." www.celsias.com/article/cold-hearted/ "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" "This is the season for quizzes. So fingers on buzzers, here’s your starter for ten. In percentage terms, how much electricity do Britain’s 3,150 wind turbines supply to the National Grid? Is it: a) five per cent; b) ten per cent; or c) 20 per cent? Come on, I’m going to have to hurry you. No conferring. Time’s up. The correct answer is: none of the above. Yesterday afternoon, the figure was just 1.6 per cent, according to the official website of the wholesale electricity market." A whole lot of wind: 'They have been consuming more electricity than they generate' www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1342032/You-dont-need-weatherman-know-way-wind-blows.html#ixzz19VxJxxFAThe politicians who are backing the windmill scam makes Don Quixote look sane. |
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Post by trbixler on Jan 1, 2011 2:19:19 GMT
Did my Drive into Palm Springs Windmill survey again and as usual 75% or so are not turning. It is only a reality check on the green renewables. While AGW group is hard at work getting ready to party I have to suffer accessing the utilization of these grand tax boondoggles. Throngs of supports were found shouting go green while remaining clueless as to why there was little power output. Well in reality I saw no one even observing these towers as if in a cemetery of ill conceived AGW ideas. Go Obama Go Lisa Jackson and well yes Go Terminator although I fear Moonbeam will be more affective at finishing the kill on the California economy.
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Post by scpg02 on Jan 1, 2011 8:52:58 GMT
Did my Drive into Palm Springs Windmill survey again and as usual 75% or so are not turning. It is only a reality check on the green renewables. While AGW group is hard at work getting ready to party I have to suffer accessing the utilization of these grand tax boondoggles. Throngs of supports were found shouting go green while remaining clueless as to why there was little power output. Well in reality I saw no one even observing these towers as if in a cemetery of ill conceived AGW ideas. Go Obama Go Lisa Jackson and well yes Go Terminator although I fear Moonbeam will be more affective at finishing the kill on the California economy. It's enough to make a grown girl cry. |
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djake
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Post by djake on Jan 1, 2011 9:38:00 GMT
Has anyone considered what effect all these windmills themselves have on weather patterns? Basically they're giant windbreaks that suck kinetic energy out of the wind, slowing it down. Does it have enough effect to actually cause a change in wind currents and eventually weather?
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Post by hairball on Jan 1, 2011 10:44:07 GMT
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Post by poitsplace on Jan 1, 2011 13:25:05 GMT
Has anyone considered what effect all these windmills themselves have on weather patterns? Basically they're giant windbreaks that suck kinetic energy out of the wind, slowing it down. Does it have enough effect to actually cause a change in wind currents and eventually weather? Well the thing is...FOR NOW they're not really very dense. I've read that the first actually takes a significant bite out of the wind...about 20% but that later ones take far less out. Still, this is probably the reason you often see only 25% turning on less windy days...the first row takes out enough power that the rest won't make any. The overall slowdown extends as much as 5 miles back from a large wind farm...so there's yet another issue to contend with. But I find one poorly understood phenomenon to be the biggest weather related hurdle to these monstrous machines. What the heck is the impact of the long term climate cycles on the wind? Since the cold phase has started its likely that much of the wind information from recent decades...is now invalid. They've seen this happening in the UK during the cold snaps. |
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djake
New Member
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Post by djake on Jan 1, 2011 17:32:58 GMT
But I find one poorly understood phenomenon to be the biggest weather related hurdle to these monstrous machines. What the heck is the impact of the long term climate cycles on the wind? Since the cold phase has started its likely that much of the wind information from recent decades...is now invalid. They've seen this happening in the UK during the cold snaps. So the windfarms are going to be in the wrong places, and an even greater waste of space and money? Maybe they can convert them into something else, like..um...derigible parking. |
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