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Post by justsomeguy on Jun 10, 2011 5:10:38 GMT
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Post by lsvalgaard on Jun 10, 2011 5:56:13 GMT
From your link: "Usually, coronal mass ejection material flies off into space, sometimes hurling toward Earth. But this time, a large majority of it fell back down to the solar surface. ... We're stumped" Well, that happens every time there is a CME, more rains down than goes out. Even the very first movie from SDI showed that: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhqrWpJCT7c |
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Post by justsomeguy on Jun 10, 2011 22:16:37 GMT
Does it rain down on half of the sun? I think that was his point, and your beef is with this guy:
Phillip Chamberlin, an astrophysicist at NASA's Goddard Spaceflight Center in Greenbelt, Md., and a deputy project scientist on the agency's Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO) satellite
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Post by justsomeguy on Jun 10, 2011 22:18:29 GMT
And what of this statement:
"Another mystery researchers are hoping to solve is why this super-powerful coronal mass ejection was paired with just a moderate solar flare. Experts aren't sure about the connection between the two events, which usually seem to roughly correlate both in timing and strength.
"One of the big questions in solar science is the relationship between solar flares and coronal mass ejections," Chamberlin said. "Can you have one without the other or are they really intimately tied? There are people in the field that will argue both ways.""
Where do you come down?
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Post by lsvalgaard on Jun 11, 2011 5:28:18 GMT
Does it rain down on half of the sun? I think that was his point, and your beef is with this guy: Phillip Chamberlin, an astrophysicist at NASA's Goddard Spaceflight Center in Greenbelt, Md., and a deputy project scientist on the agency's Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO) satellite Every CME rains down on the surface below it. If the CME covers a large area, it will rain on a large area. |
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Post by lsvalgaard on Jun 11, 2011 5:33:57 GMT
And what of this statement: "Another mystery researchers are hoping to solve is why this super-powerful coronal mass ejection was paired with just a moderate solar flare. Experts aren't sure about the connection between the two events, which usually seem to roughly correlate both in timing and strength. "One of the big questions in solar science is the relationship between solar flares and coronal mass ejections," Chamberlin said. "Can you have one without the other or are they really intimately tied? There are people in the field that will argue both ways."" Where do you come down? The flare happens when an electric field is created by twisting/moving/rotating magnetic fields. The electric field accelerates material down towards the chromosphere where is collides with the underlying stuff and heats it [in addition to the heat released from the unwinding magnetic field]. All this activity upsets the delicate balance that allows a filament to 'hang' in the magnetic field causing it to erupt. This is a chicken and egg business, and probably goes both ways [so everybody can be happy]. |
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Post by THEO BAKALEXIS on Jun 11, 2011 14:23:39 GMT
Fair seeing today from athens. I see two great explosions today but the weather gave terrible seeing today with mist but sometimes the weather open for a little. Some regions resign the visible side. 11234 has spots and one more faculae over region 11234 giving spots too but has no number yet. Two solar flares today until now and i see them. I do the best retoush in my videos and giving some images to you. www.solar-007.eu/site/ |
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lku
Level 2 Rank
Posts: 62
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Post by lku on Jun 13, 2011 10:49:02 GMT
Great call there Leif.... once again you're spot on. Definitely looks like 24 will play out the same way.... On the other hand small cycles tend to have this 'spiky' behavior, e.g. cycle 14:  |
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bradk
Level 3 Rank
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Post by bradk on Jun 14, 2011 6:59:27 GMT
Is it really apples to apples to compare radio sunspots to visible sunspots?
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bradk
Level 3 Rank
Posts: 199
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Post by bradk on Jun 14, 2011 7:04:15 GMT
Boy, that one visible sunspot is tiny, are we headed back to zero visible?
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Post by jcarels on Jun 14, 2011 9:49:03 GMT
Have a look at the big spot coming into view on the eastern limb.
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Post by lsvalgaard on Jun 14, 2011 11:13:28 GMT
Is it really apples to apples to compare radio sunspots to visible sunspots? They are both results of the same phenomenon: magnetic fields in the solar atmosphere. A region with magnetic field 1200 Gauss will produce microwave flux, but no visible sunspots. Whether that is 'apples to apples' might be a definitional problem. The way I see it is that the flux and the spots are just different ways of looking at the same thing. |
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AD6AA
Level 2 Rank
Posts: 82
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Post by AD6AA on Jun 14, 2011 12:42:40 GMT
Is it really apples to apples to compare radio sunspots to visible sunspots? Doc Isvalgaard has a very fine answer, but one can always look at it as the visual equivalent to the question. "If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it made a sound?" HAHA |
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Post by justsomeguy on Jun 14, 2011 13:10:08 GMT
I would simply disagree, to use visible sunspots to compare to flux during a period when the L & P effect is driving the two phenomena from their normal direct correlation, as Leif has shown, is a bit well, misleading. If the correlation were not changing, sure, but it is...
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Post by lsvalgaard on Jun 14, 2011 18:27:35 GMT
I would simply disagree, to use visible sunspots to compare to flux during a period when the L & P effect is driving the two phenomena from their normal direct correlation, as Leif has shown, is a bit well, misleading. If the correlation were not changing, sure, but it is... What is happening is that the magnetic flux is behaving as normal [given by the radio flux], but the process that concentrates that into sunspots is not working as efficiently as before, leading to a smaller number of visible spots. The the discrepancy is just a sign that the visibility of the spots is changing. This may have happened during the Maunder Minimum, so that instead of having an inactive sun, we just had a sun with invisible sunspots, the magnetic field not being drastically lower. |
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