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Post by tobyglyn on Oct 29, 2008 1:21:58 GMT
The Sydney Morning Herald has an article today clearly demonstrating how AWG and politics go hand in hand. "SYDNEY'S iconic beaches, coastal houses, commercial property and roads will be threatened by rising sea levels by 2050, while the city's temperature is expected to rise by at least 2 degrees, a new scientific study, launched by the Premier, Nathan Rees, reveals. "Today, the science is in for Sydney," Mr Rees said yesterday as he proclaimed the influence of the climate sceptic and former treasurer Michael Costa at an end in NSW. "The Costa era of ambiguity around this issue is over. Along with the rest of the NSW public, I recognise that climate change is a reality and that the NSW Government needs to prepare for it," the Premier said. "There is no longer a climate-change sceptic at the centre of government decision-making in this state"." There is more and it's a pretty disturbing read for a AGW skeptic like myself  www.smh.com.au/news/environment/global-warming/sealevel-rise-threat-to-coast/2008/10/28/1224956039688.html |
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Post by nautonnier on Oct 29, 2008 1:25:22 GMT
The cap-and-trade system has been successfully used in the United States to clean up Sulfur Dioxide emissions from coal-fired power plants. It provided an incentive to the utilities to buy scrubbers for their power plants and to shut down older, less efficient plants. Europe instituted a cap-and-trade system to meet their Kyoto goals. Although the first round was not successful (they gave away the credits instead of auctioning them off and they gave away too many credits), the second round is going better and it looks like Europe is on track to meet their Kyoto goals. On the other hand, the Montreal Protocol was very successful in outright banning the CFCs that lead to stratospheric ozone depletion. Although chemical companies, air conditioning manufacturers and refrigerator makers at first protested that they'd be destroyed by this massive international government intervention in their industries, they successfully developed new products that don't destroy the ozone and turned a profit in doing so. So there's an arguement that a carbon tax or a strict limit on carbon dioxide emissions, without a counter balancing incentive mechanism like the cap-and-trade system, could work as well. Many of the proposals around carbon taxes and the auction proceeds from cap-and-trade permit sales focus on how to distribute the income that would be generated from these systems. They vary from a direct check back to the taxpayers (cap-and-dividend) to investments in alternative energy and rail transportation systems. Perhaps it would be more useful to debate some of those aspects of the politics. After all, both of the major party candidates for the US Presidency have indicated they are in favor of cap-and-trade. The question is how they would implement it. First of all - NO NATION has met its Kyoto goals - they are not even close. The one Kyoto effect that HAS been met (as forecast by Australia and the U.S.A.) is that manufacturing and jobs have been exported to those countries that are not enforcing Kyoto such as China and India. Congratulations !!! A new dirty unregulated coal fired power station every week - really good news Its no accident that Jaguar is owned by an Indian company and British Leyland (or whatever it calls itself) is owned by a Chinese company. There was research shown recently on here that although the CFCs are reducing as planned the Ozone hole is not. As it would appear that it is not directly due to CFCs at all but due to radiation from space and the temperature. (I'll find the paper). So yes success in stopping the CFCs probably incorrect. Success in exporting jobs and uncontrolled pollution to India China and the 3rd world. But the CO2 keeps rising and the temperatures are falling. Its like the killing the dogs and cats during the bubonic plague and claiming success look at how many we have killed - unfortunately it was rat fleas that were carrying the plague and they then multiplied without the cats and dogs to kill them. History is full of occasions of humans blaming the incorrect causality. I think that AGW is yet another example. As I have said before - I'll give it to 2010 then all will be clear. |
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Post by tobyglyn on Oct 29, 2008 1:51:44 GMT
There was research shown recently on here that although the CFCs are reducing as planned the Ozone hole is not. As it would appear that it is not directly due to CFCs at all but due to radiation from space and the temperature. (I'll find the paper). Maybe this? "WATERLOO, Ont. (Tuesday, Sept. 16, 2008) -- A University of Waterloo scientist says that cosmic rays are a key cause for expanding the hole in the ozone layer over the South Pole -- and predicts the largest ozone hole will occur in one or two weeks. Qing-Bin Lu, a professor of physics and astronomy who studies ozone depletion, said that it was generally accepted for more than two decades that the Earth's ozone layer is depleted by chlorine atoms produced by sunlight-induced destruction of chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) in the atmosphere. But more and more evidence now points to a new theory that the cosmic rays (energy particles that originate in space) play a major role. " newsrelease.uwaterloo.ca/news.php?id=4997 |
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Post by nautonnier on Oct 29, 2008 2:17:58 GMT
Thanks Toby - yes that's the one  |
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Post by kiwistonewall on Oct 29, 2008 3:39:47 GMT
Yup, I studied post graduate Atmospheric photochemistry, with particular reference to ozone. The millions of supersonic planes were all going to destroy the stratosphere and life as we knew it.
Of course I believed it! My professor wrote the text book on it at the time. Where did the 60's & 70's go! ;D
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Post by nautonnier on Oct 29, 2008 10:23:25 GMT
Here is a taste of what is to come. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3270430/Climate-change-laws-to-force-companies-to-reveal-pollution-levels.htmlThe perception has been managed - here comes the industry killing. There are some industries like smelting that cannot reduce their output by 80% In fact how about the sports and fitness business? By causing people to exercise they are increasing their CO2 output - they are now required by law to stop people exercising so that they reduce their CO2 output. Presumably the same applies to the forestry commission - those stands of trees are now mature and are now net producers of CO2 not consumers. Problem is that everything puts out something that is a GHG. I think I'll campaign to have Di-hydrogen-oxide added to the list of pollutant GHGs. It makes as much sense. And all this because some unproven models showed some correlation 10 years ago with a rise in global temperatures that has now ceased. This is not a joke any more. |
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Post by Acolyte on Oct 29, 2008 12:07:59 GMT
This is not a joke any more. No. It isn't a joke. And as the movie said, follow the money... when you do there are some very familiar names at the top of the listings. Kiwi said: Don't look for a conspiracy when stupidity is a valid hypothesis! Don't underestimate the power of belief! This is a false way to view things. What it should be is something like, 'just because stupidity is a valid hypothesis, don't fail to see the conspiracy. Or... Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after me. Do you seriously believe that people playing with billions or trillions of dollars do not have an agenda? Do you truly think that people who've been making billions or trillions of dollars from us are going to let others shape that agenda? Someone else mentioned how it can't be a conspiracy because someone would have spilled the beans... “Never in the history of the United States have two presidential candidates been as well endowed with royal alliances. There has always been a significant “royal factor,” in those who aspired to the White House, with Presidents George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan, among others, all boasting blue blood links. Al Gore…a descendant of Edward I, he is also a cousin of former U.S. President Richard Nixon, who resigned from the White House in 1974 for his part in the Watergate scandal. However, Al Gore does have direct links to the Holy Roman Empire. He is descendant of Roman Emperors Louis II, Charles II, and Louis I and is therefore also a direct descendant of Charlemagne, the eighth-century Emperor. The problem is that Gore’s Charlemagne links also make him a cousin of George W. Bush.”
-Harold Brooks-Baker, Burke’s Peerage Publishing Director from p. 7, NEXUS magazine, Vol. 8, No 1, January-February edition When asked how the American people would respond to the inconsistencies of the JFK assassination/Warren Commission report, CIA director Allen Dulles simply said, “The American people don’t read.” “The past record of man is burdened with accounts of assassinations, secret combines, palace plots and betrayals in war. But in spite of this clear record, an amazing number of people have begun to scoff at the possibility of conspiracy at work today. They dismiss such an idea merely as a Conspiratorial View.” -Political Commentator G. Edward Griffin “The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.” -FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover “Behind the division of humanity stand those Enlightened Ones whose right and privilege it is to watch over human evolution and to guide the destinies of men…This they do through the implanting of ideas in the minds of the world thinkers, so that these ideas in due time receive recognition and eventually become controlling factors in human life. They train the members of the New Group of World Servers in the task of changing these ideas into ideals. These in turn become the desired objectives of the thinkers and are then taught to the powerful middle class and worked up into world forms of governments or religion, thus forming the basis of the New World Order.” - Alice Bailey, Occultist, Fabian and Head of the Lucis Trust “There is, it must be confessed, a psychological difficulty about a single world government. The chief source of social cohesion in the past, I repeat, has been war: the passions that inspire a feeling of unity are hate and fear. These depend upon the existence of an enemy, actual or potential. It seems to that a world government could only be kept in being by force, not by the spontaneous loyalty that now inspires a nation at war.” -Bertrand Russell, “The Impact of Science on Society” "Further global progress is now possible only through a quest for universal consensus in the movement towards a new world order." -Mikhail Gorbachev, United Nations address, December, 1988 "We can see beyond the present shadows of war in the Middle East to a new world order where the strong work together to deter and stop aggression. This was precisely Franklin Roosevelt's and Winston
Churchill's vision for peace for the post-war period." -Richard Gephardt, Wall Street Journal, September, 1990
“The crisis in the Persian Gulf offers a rare opportunity to move toward a historic period of cooperation. Out of these troubled times; a New World Order can emerge.” -President George Bush, Congressional speech, September 11, 1990
“What is at stake is more than one small country. It is a big idea, a New World Order, where diverse nations are drawn together in common cause to achieve universal aspirations of mankind— peace and security, freedom and the rule of law. Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective, a new world order, can emerge. Now we can see a new world coming into being, a world in which there is the very real prospect of a new world order.” -President George Bush, State of the Union Address, September 11, 1991 "[The New World Order] cannot happen without U.S. participation, as we are the most significant single component. Yes, there will be a New World Order, and it will force the United States to change its perceptions." -Henry Kissinger, World Affairs Council Press Conference, Regent Beverly Wilshire Hotel, April 19th 1994 “We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.” -David Rockefeller at a UN Ambassadors’ dinner, Sept. 23rd, 1994 In 1998, Zbigniew Brzezinski wrote another book called “The Grand Chessboard,” in which he compared the elite control of the world to a game of chess and accurately “predicted” Afghani terror attacks and the rise of the American police state. Alex Jones extrapolates in “911 Descent into Tyranny”: “For decades going back to Jimmy Carter and Zbigniew Brzezinski, the National Security Advisor, the New World Order overlords had been breeding and creating these terrorists organizations, funding them, and training them to attack America. Zbigniew Brzezinski, co-founder of the Trilateral Commission with David Rockefeller and other luminaries of the global system, actually bragged in his 1998 book The
Grand Chessboard, of how America would be attacked by Afghan terrorists. A war for global government would then take place in Central Asia that would be used as a reason to roll out national ID cards and a global police state here in the United States. According to Brzezinski’s book, everything that is happening now was planned decades ago. Brzezinski’s book continues to explain how America must survive by following the basic rules of empire and how outside enemies are needed to mobilize the population behind the imperium’s hegemony.” ...and so on - the truth is, it isn't a matter of no whistle blowers. Not only are the whistle blowers ignored, even when killed immediately after, such as the first black Congressman from New York, Adam Clayton Powell Jr., or Congressman Larry P. McDonald, who was killed onboard a plane suspiciously shot down by soviets. In 1976 he said, “The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent." They have us policing ourselves, manning the barricades of truth to ensure nobody breaks through. Think about it. What better way to ensure 'the people' fail to realise what is going on than to create a label - if anyone stumbles into Truth, you simply call them a 'Conspiracy Theorist' & nearly all the population will back away slowly, trying not to make eye contact with them. How better to conceal a potential conspiracy than to place it out in the open & have the victims enforce ignorance of the true state of affairs. Where is the money going? Follow the path to the top & you begin to get some idea of why agw is being pushed hard in spite of the physical evidence which falsifies it. There's a game being played & only one team even knows it's on the game field. How hard is it to win when the opposition doesn't even know the game is being played? When they willingly beat up the guy who runs out saying, 'watch out for the guys running towards you!' |
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Post by Acolyte on Oct 29, 2008 12:25:16 GMT
And one more for good measure... In his 2002 Memoirs, David Rockefeller openly admitted conspiring with other globalists toward a one-world order: "Some even believe we (the Rockefeller family) are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as
'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure---one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." |
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Post by twawki on Oct 29, 2008 12:41:13 GMT
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Post by ron on Oct 29, 2008 15:32:11 GMT
And all this because some unproven models showed some correlation 10 years ago with a rise in global temperatures that has now ceased. This is not a joke any more. Guys, The oil is probably running out. If not running out, the ability to produce much more is anyway; if we want to keep grwoing we need to go to "green" energy anyway. Do you disagree? |
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Post by Pooh on Oct 29, 2008 19:29:19 GMT
Income Equality?
One of the more enduring popular illusions in “Spread The Wealth” political philosophy is that income distribution will be more equal. This is the heart of “Progressive” income tax rates.
If you think that “Spread The Wealth” (through carbon emission taxation) will help level income distribution, consult Figure 35-2, “Income distribution in U.S.S.R. resembles that in the United States”, Samuelson, Pg 777.
This chart shows the ratio of estimated income of the top 10% to the income of the bottom 10% in six countries: United States, Canada, USSR, Sweden, Britain and Czechoslovakia. Samuelson takes care to note that the ratio for the USSR includes that of the “communist elites”.
The ratio for the United States is 10. Surprise! The ratio for the USSR is 8. Canada, 8; Sweden, 5; Britain, 5; Czechoslovakia, about 4.5.
Source: Morrison, "Income Distribution in East European and Western Countries", Journal of Comparative Economics. June 1984.
How could this have happened in the worker’s paradise? Did income shift from Makers to Takers?
Well, recall that the motivation for a Manager (apparatchik) is to Fulfill the Plan. Meeting the plan is rewarded with a Bonus; failing to meet it means Dismissal. Or worse. Remember the gulag.
This does not include perks, like the Boogie In Bali.
"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." -- George Orwell
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Post by Pooh on Oct 29, 2008 22:07:09 GMT
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Post by Acolyte on Oct 29, 2008 23:57:43 GMT
*grins* Did somebody copy the address at the top of the page he was using to post to the thread? |
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Post by twawki on Oct 30, 2008 0:47:00 GMT
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Post by Acolyte on Oct 30, 2008 7:43:55 GMT
Some time back I went looking to find out just who the IPCC was - what made them '2500 of the world's leading scientists'? From ‘IPCC scientists; the butcher the baker the candlestick maker’ ..so we focused on the contributors who operate in the UK. Of the 51 UK contributors to the report, there were 5 economists, 3 epidemiologists, 5 who were either zoologists, entomologists, or biologists. 5 worked in civil engineering or risk management / insurance. 7 had specialisms in physical geography (we gave the benefit of the doubt to some academics whose profiles weren’t clear about whether they are physical or human geographers). And just 10 have specialisms in geophysics, climate science or modelling, or hydrology. But there were 15 who could only be described as social scientists. If we take the view that economics is a social science, that makes 20 social scientists. Also… We were surprised by the results. Was the prevalence of social scientists from the UK representative of the whole group? We decided to repeat the test for the contributors based in the USA.
Of the 70 US contributors, there were 7 economists, 13 social scientists, 3 epidemiologists, 10 biologists/ecologists, 5 engineers, 2 modellers/statisticians, 1 full-time activist (and 1 part time), 5 were in public health and policy, and 4 were unknowns. 17 worked in earth/atmospheric sciences. Again, we gave the benefit of the doubt to geographers where it wasn’t clear whether their specialism was physical, or human geography. |
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