|
Post by flearider on Jul 17, 2014 7:47:38 GMT
it cant see the worst of it as like an iceberg most of the cold is deep we are only seeing the effects of the upwelling .. but as we get more and faster(by volume) deep cold jets we get more upwells and it mixes we are seeing a change but looking in the wrong place ..
|
|
|
Post by flearider on Jul 21, 2014 8:02:13 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Ratty on Jul 21, 2014 8:20:54 GMT
Someone like Anthony Watts will probably be complaining ..... but I don't see any mention on his Sea Ice page: Sea Ice: WUWT
|
|
|
Post by sigurdur on Jul 21, 2014 12:57:29 GMT
I think it is fixed. Antarctic Sea Ice extent is still well above the 20 year mean.
|
|
|
Post by douglavers on Jul 24, 2014 5:50:14 GMT
|
|
|
Post by cuttydyer on Jul 24, 2014 8:01:45 GMT
Apparently the increase in Antarctic sea ice isn't real - the Schtick reports: "A new paper is being spun by warmists as debunking the recent record highs in Antarctic sea ice. According to the authors, a change in satellite sensors in December 1991 led to a "significant error" in either the data prior to 12/91 or the data after 12/91, but they don't know which one." Link: hockeyschtick.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/the-large-increase-in-antarctic-sea-ice.html
|
|
|
Post by nautonnier on Jul 24, 2014 9:56:52 GMT
Apparently the increase in Antarctic sea ice isn't real - the Schtick reports: "A new paper is being spun by warmists as debunking the recent record highs in Antarctic sea ice. According to the authors, a change in satellite sensors in December 1991 led to a "significant error" in either the data prior to 12/91 or the data after 12/91, but they don't know which one." Link: hockeyschtick.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/the-large-increase-in-antarctic-sea-ice.htmlThis was discussed at WUWT a few posts ago as commenters pointed out the 'error' (if there is one) is an order of magnitude less than the increase, and in any case as it was made in 1991 will not affect the recent trend. It is interesting to note the differing excuses for the ANtarctic ice which now vary from an algorith error to it is caused by warming. Presumably it was an algorithm error that trapped the ship of fools and the rescue icebreaker. Who knew? Just a few lines of code change and they would have been free of ice It all goes to show (1) that panic is breaking out; and (2) the extremely poor state of the software being used to justify changes in the world economy. No quality management systems, no verificatin and validation testing, continual use of amateur academics and students to code important software -- is it really surprising that things go wrong and the first reaction is to 'cover up the errors' rather than fix them?
|
|
|
Post by dontgetoutmuch on Jul 24, 2014 13:28:24 GMT
Apparently the increase in Antarctic sea ice isn't real - the Schtick reports: "A new paper is being spun by warmists as debunking the recent record highs in Antarctic sea ice. According to the authors, a change in satellite sensors in December 1991 led to a "significant error" in either the data prior to 12/91 or the data after 12/91, but they don't know which one." Link: hockeyschtick.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/the-large-increase-in-antarctic-sea-ice.htmlThis was discussed at WUWT a few posts ago as commenters pointed out the 'error' (if there is one) is an order of magnitude less than the increase, and in any case as it was made in 1991 will not affect the recent trend. It is interesting to note the differing excuses for the ANtarctic ice which now vary from an algorith error to it is caused by warming. Presumably it was an algorithm error that trapped the ship of fools and the rescue icebreaker. Who knew? Just a few lines of code change and they would have been free of ice It all goes to show (1) that panic is breaking out; and (2) the extremely poor state of the software being used to justify changes in the world economy. No quality management systems, no verificatin and validation testing, continual use of amateur academics and students to code important software -- is it really surprising that things go wrong and the first reaction is to 'cover up the errors' rather than fix them? A couple more things... The proposed algorithm error, if it exists would have caused a step change in the data in 1991. There is no such step change. The increase in Antarctic ice is post "error", an error in 1991 would cause immediate increases of sea ice as the error took affect. The ice does not really take off until 2011.
|
|
|
Post by sigurdur on Jul 24, 2014 14:06:49 GMT
That's because the algorithm didn't apply until the growth exceeded the modeled inputs.
Ya know what I mean?
|
|
|
Post by sigurdur on Jul 24, 2014 14:12:49 GMT
Notice that the dispute is over extent....correct? Well, area is another matter. arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/antarctic.sea.ice.interactive.htmlWith the exception of the longer time period covered by the most recent dataset, the two records were thought to be nearly identical. But, by comparing the datasets and calculating Antarctic sea ice extent for each of them, the team found that there was a stark difference between the two records, with the current one giving larger rates of sea ice expansion than the old one in any given period.
|
|
|
Post by Ufasuperstorm on Jul 26, 2014 21:38:43 GMT
Notice that the dispute is over extent....correct? Well, area is another matter. arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/antarctic.sea.ice.interactive.htmlWith the exception of the longer time period covered by the most recent dataset, the two records were thought to be nearly identical. But, by comparing the datasets and calculating Antarctic sea ice extent for each of them, the team found that there was a stark difference between the two records, with the current one giving larger rates of sea ice expansion than the old one in any given period. WOW! Southern hemisphere sea ice area and extent look to set new maximum satellite era records this year. The modeled weather forecast looks very favorable over the next month for southern hemisphere sea ice growth.
|
|
|
Post by douglavers on Jul 26, 2014 22:40:50 GMT
We now have the bad prospect of Antarctic Ice plumbing new heights at the same time as Arctic temperatures start heading for the freeze line weeks early. It occurs to me that a feedback loop is being established - more Arctic Ice with a fresh frozen surface will reflect more sunlight - hence cooling even in August and September. This ignores what extra Antarctic Ice may be doing to the planetary heat budget. ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.phpThere is still a huge area of anomalously cold water in the Atlantic - implying that the feed of warm water into the Arctic through the area North of Norway has also slowed. weather.unisys.com/surface/sst_anom_new.gifAll that is left is for the satellite temperature measurements to start to show a steep decline. With a still-born El Nino, this seems quite likely. The ground based measurements seem to be suffering from manipulation, which may cause the perpetrators some angst in the future. It is sad when most visible straws are pointing in one direction, while primarily Western Governments seem to be locked into preparing for the opposite.
|
|
|
Post by nautonnier on Jul 27, 2014 11:52:28 GMT
We now have the bad prospect of Antarctic Ice plumbing new heights at the same time as Arctic temperatures start heading for the freeze line weeks early. It occurs to me that a feedback loop is being established - more Arctic Ice with a fresh frozen surface will reflect more sunlight - hence cooling even in August and September. This ignores what extra Antarctic Ice may be doing to the planetary heat budget. ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.phpThere is still a huge area of anomalously cold water in the Atlantic - implying that the feed of warm water into the Arctic through the area North of Norway has also slowed. weather.unisys.com/surface/sst_anom_new.gifAll that is left is for the satellite temperature measurements to start to show a steep decline. With a still-born El Nino, this seems quite likely. The ground based measurements seem to be suffering from manipulation, which may cause the perpetrators some angst in the future. It is sad when most visible straws are pointing in one direction, while primarily Western Governments seem to be locked into preparing for the opposite. Whilst I do not really approve of wiggle watching - the DMI temperatures for the Arctic would appear to indicate another cooler year than normal. With the indication of an early drop below freezing. This could prove to be an embarrassing year for alarmists, particularly those that have been adjusting temperatures higher as that means when any undeniable drop comes it will be larger, they seem though to be taking careful aim at their feet.
|
|
|
Post by douglavers on Jul 27, 2014 12:45:27 GMT
271DegK is the important number.
Sea ice freezing point.
|
|
|
Post by nautonnier on Jul 27, 2014 17:49:57 GMT
271DegK is the important number. Sea ice freezing point. But not the snow on top of the ice; and the melt water ponds on top of the ice are effectively distilled water and will freeze at 273K
|
|