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Post by sigurdur on Jun 14, 2014 15:05:25 GMT
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Post by sigurdur on Jun 14, 2014 15:06:10 GMT
Being the surface temp has failed to rise, now it is the sea levels that are the new metric in global warming. I forecast that they will continue to rise, so it must be getting hotter......right?
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Post by dontgetoutmuch on Jun 14, 2014 17:24:53 GMT
(Places tinfoil hat on head) Is the sea level rising in accordance with the narrative? Correct me if I am wrong, but the true smoking gun of AGW is hidden behind the fact that the planet is exploding.
I know it is complicated, but bear with me. Everyone knows the ice cap is melting and we are all going to perish in mankind's waste heat after we burn and drown at the same time. This is clearly demonstrated by the all the extra sea ice in the world, and the desperately cold winter we just exited. (Sorry, one of my faults is I'm Northern Hemispheric Centric) The oceans are rising at tsunami-like speed, but this is not apparent to deniers because sea level rise is being hidden by the Continents rising just as fast, due to isostatic rebound from an age when soccer moms did not drive SUV's. In Antarctica's case the Earth is rising much faster then the oceans. Very soon all the continents will achieve orbit. The only way to stop this from happening is to initiate a carbon tax on the West, and of course build more bird choppers, and additional solar power plants.
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Post by AstroMet on Jun 14, 2014 18:45:25 GMT
(Places tinfoil hat on head) Is the sea level rising in accordance with the narrative? Correct me if I am wrong, but the true smoking gun of AGW is hidden behind the fact that the planet is exploding. I know it is complicated, but bear with me. Everyone knows the ice cap is melting and we are all going to perish in mankind's waste heat after we burn and drown at the same time. This is clearly demonstrated by the all the extra sea ice in the world, and the desperately cold winter we just exited. (Sorry, one of my faults is I'm Northern Hemispheric Centric) The oceans are rising at tsunami-like speed, but this is not apparent to deniers because sea level rise is being hidden by the Continents rising just as fast, due to isostatic rebound from an age when soccer moms did not drive SUV's. In Antarctica's case the Earth is rising much faster then the oceans. Very soon all the continents will achieve orbit. The only way to stop this from happening is to initiate a carbon tax on the West, and of course build more bird choppers, and additional solar power plants. No, I don't think so Dontgetoutmuch, There is no such thing as 'man-made global warming,' and the arctic and antarctic sea ice melts occur naturally, mostly during their respective warm seasons in both hemispheres of Earth, the north and south poles. Moreover, the ice caps are growing - not melting - and there will be no floods because of that. Some people fail to remeember that it is at the equator where sea levels always rise. On glacier melt, a new study by researchers at the University of Texas at Austin found that the West Antarctic Ice Sheet has been melting due to geothermal heat - but not by human-induced global warming, which does not exist anyhow according to the laws of physics. Nonetheless, the careerist alarmists who say that pink elephants can fly (man-made global warming) took yet another turn in their delusion by freaking out over Antarctica’s western ice sheet as, quote, "further evidence the planet is warming." Using boy-cries-wolf-again-and-again-on-man-made-global-warming propaganda on western ice sheet melt in Antarctica, they use words like "unstoppable" and could "dramatically raise sea levels," and we have to "act on climate change." All of it bullshit from start to finish. This astrometeorologist continues to state that there is NO such thing as 'man-made global warming.' It does not and can never exist on Earth according to the physical laws that govern the Earth's entire planetary atmosphere and climate. It is the Sun and the planets that causes all climate change on Earth. This is natural and the same laws of physics continue in operation on our planet. Human beings cannot cause planetary climate change - only the SUN can do that and does it very, very well indeed. 'WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING AT THE WESTERN ICE SHEET OF THE ANTARCTIC'Researchers from University of Texas at Austin's Institute for Geophysics found that the Thwaites Glacier in western Antarctica is being eroded by geothermal heat from magma and subaerial volcanoes.
Thwaites is considered a key glacier for understanding future sea level rise.
UTA researchers used radar techniques to map water flows under ice sheets and estimate the rate of ice melt in the glacier.
As measurements showed, the geothermal heat from the magma and volcanoes under the glacier is much hotter and covers a much wider area than was previously thought.
“Geothermal flux is one of the most dynamically critical ice sheet boundary conditions, but is extremely difficult to constrain at the scale required to understand and predict the behavior of rapidly changing glaciers,” UTA researchers wrote in their study, which was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences."See ->> www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/06/04/1405184111.full.pdf+html?sid=5859c342-ec49-4de6-a82a-9b2c2c826b3e
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Post by douglavers on Jun 14, 2014 20:16:12 GMT
Sigurdur
Where does one find an up to date, reliable, graph of recent sea level rise?
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Post by karlox on Jun 14, 2014 20:24:21 GMT
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Post by sigurdur on Jun 14, 2014 21:26:24 GMT
Sigurdur Where does one find an up to date, reliable, graph of recent sea level rise? Doug: Now that is a very good question. The folks in charge of those measurements keep adding more conditions to the measurements, so the actual long term measurements are really polluted. The only reliable measurement to date is the old stick by the side of the ocean. I do believe they are called Tide Gauges?...
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Post by icefisher on Jun 15, 2014 9:40:20 GMT
Sigurdur Where does one find an up to date, reliable, graph of recent sea level rise? Doug: Now that is a very good question. The folks in charge of those measurements keep adding more conditions to the measurements, so the actual long term measurements are really polluted. The only reliable measurement to date is the old stick by the side of the ocean. I do believe they are called Tide Gauges?... Well highly experienced and distinguished scientists like Mann, Jones, Osborn, Briffa etc. have reconstructed temperatures for the past 100 years. Since the sticks by the side of the ocean failed to record the correct values expected from the water expansion due to heat absorption, a theory of isostatic rebound was founded whereby continents uplift and ocean bottoms sink from the melting of ice running off the continents into the ocean. Then when Argo observations showed that the ocean was cooling over the past decade they started throwing out the coldest buoys based upon a theory of pressure leakage (suggesting buoys dove deeper than recorded and reported cooler than reality temperatures for the depth strata) because they were not properly reflecting the thermal expansion of the ocean. Now that is all straightened out. But we have to stop burning fossil fuels to prevent the planet from overheating.
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Post by douglavers on Jun 15, 2014 10:09:28 GMT
First of all nobody seems to know where I can get a half decent graph of up to date global sea level rise.
My nice pic of global SST anomalies is taken off air.
Allegations of mistreatment of Argo buoys are mentioned above.
This all sounds like the slow degradation of real science, with which I was educated a long time ago. Or perhaps I am just getting old and dumb.
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Post by hrizzo on Jun 15, 2014 12:27:16 GMT
Then when Argo observations showed that the ocean was cooling over the past decade they started throwing out the coldest buoys based upon a theory of pressure leakage (suggesting buoys dove deeper than recorded and reported cooler than reality temperatures for the depth strata) because they were not properly reflecting the thermal expansion of the ocean. Icefisher, do you have a link to check data on those maquinations? I like to have papers or articles to file, specially when the perpetrators boast of them, like Hansen and his "recalibration" of data to reduce "imbalances" with models because they (the data from reality) were "implausible" (http://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/11/13421/2011/acp-11-13421-2011.pdf)
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Post by sigurdur on Jun 15, 2014 13:19:07 GMT
First of all nobody seems to know where I can get a half decent graph of up to date global sea level rise. My nice pic of global SST anomalies is taken off air. Allegations of mistreatment of Argo buoys are mentioned above. This all sounds like the slow degradation of real science, with which I was educated a long time ago. Or perhaps I am just getting old and dumb. Doug: There was a paper a few years ago by Douglas I think? He used tide gauges to compare all of the "adjustments". Of course, it was vilified because it didn't include all the adjustments, just tidal gauges to show actual shore line sea level.
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Post by sigurdur on Jun 15, 2014 13:22:04 GMT
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Post by sigurdur on Jun 15, 2014 14:33:37 GMT
Code: The plates are always moving. Sea level is a problem when it actually rises where you live.
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Post by icefisher on Jun 15, 2014 18:14:35 GMT
First of all nobody seems to know where I can get a half decent graph of up to date global sea level rise. My nice pic of global SST anomalies is taken off air. Allegations of mistreatment of Argo buoys are mentioned above. This all sounds like the slow degradation of real science, with which I was educated a long time ago. Or perhaps I am just getting old and dumb. Doug: There was a paper a few years ago by Douglas I think? He used tide gauges to compare all of the "adjustments". Of course, it was vilified because it didn't include all the adjustments, just tidal gauges to show actual shore line sea level. The buoy data has not been changed. What was changed were conclusions drawn from it. When I say "tossed out" I mean tossed out of a study proclaiming that oceans are cooling and the conclusion changed to no statistically significant change in the temperature of the ocean. These changes were revealed a few years ago by the NOAA scientist that wrote a paper after examining the first 3 years of ARGO data and stated the oceans were cooling. He experienced a huge political backlash and it appeared he may have been strong armed into accepting adjustments to his report. He wrote a mea culpa explaining he found it necessary to change his conclusions because his study was in conflict with widely accepted science regarding the expansion of oceans from heat uptake. This is pretty soft science but its built on information showing increases in ocean temperature (from unreliable pre-ARGO sources) greater than revealed by a long history of tidal gauges. Thus the theory of isostatic rebound was created to close the information conflict gap. Then isostatic rebound is used to explain the continued lack of ocean warming validation from the tidal gauges. After all this was blessed some civil servant scientists working from NOAA is not going to upset the applecart. He is using new data from a new system so the assumption is the new system has flaws. Who is right? I think we have to file this in the I don't have a clue category. Ostensibly a buoy leaking study where actual buoys were tested for leakage never saw the light of day. A process exactly like Dr. Lonny Thompson trips to Qori Kalis glacier after 2007. Bias in science is created in this way. Its all political science. The folks here on this forum find tons of interesting science that brings all this into perspective and all that science kind of sits on the shelf until some politician decides it suits his interests. The real truth is is that this is nothing new. This process has remained unchanged over the eons from the days of Witch Doctors, through the Pope and Earth Centrism, to this very day. Its identical to the problem of financial markets as more and more reliance was placed on them. Only in the last hundred years has there been much of any regulation in financial markets to help avoid investors from getting conned. Regulation in science has been resisted in the name of "Academic Freedom". But the real problem is they want the money for research too and do not want to share it with a regulated "professional" science community who would have to live under legal and civil liability standards, like do accountants, doctors, engineers, pharmaceutical companies and such. IMHO, thats is something that is going to eventually happen when people get tired enough of the nonsense.
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Post by douglavers on Jun 15, 2014 22:56:41 GMT
Sigurdur
Thank you for the Bing files. By coincidence I was in Port Douglas last week, walked along the beach shown, watching out for crocs in the swamp on the other side of the small beach dune [!], and ate in the Sea Temple twice. Nosh was good.
Why do none of the graphs show very recent tidal level changes? They all seem to stop between 2010 and 2012.
BTW, I am having a little difficulty understanding isostatic rebound as an explanation for sea level change.. Seems to me that one country's rebound is another country's subsidence. Take Scandinavia for example; area rising quite rapidly from the last Ice Age disappearing. Presumably when it "dipped" under ice weight, somewhere else there must have been a corresponding upthrust.[And vice versa]. All the continents are floating on semi-fluid rock.
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