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Post by acidohm on May 8, 2018 9:07:43 GMT
I think the reference is to the Drax Power Sation, UK's largest. 3 of 6 boilers have been converted to use woodships/sawdust, imported from N America. A tree is felled, and moved to processing area Chipped, or saw dust utilised [call these biomass] Load biomass onto railway, transport to port. Make sure biomass is dry. Load onto ship, move ship across Atlantic Unload biomass onto train. Transport to Drax Dry before use [again] Burn A Martian might wonder how much energy was used in delivering wood from tree to input at furnace. Wood is a much less energy dense fuel than coal. Was this accounted for in "CO2 Saving" calculation?! Not forgetting drax is built ON A COAL SEAM!!!! Pretty much 0 transportation required!!
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Post by Ratty on May 8, 2018 9:38:15 GMT
[ Snip ] Not forgetting drax is built ON A COAL SEAM!!!! Pretty much 0 transportation required!! That cannot be right ... Much as I like you Acid, I fear you have been infected by your local Denier Chapter.
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Post by acidohm on May 8, 2018 11:04:09 GMT
[ Snip ] Not forgetting drax is built ON A COAL SEAM!!!! Pretty much 0 transportation required!! That cannot be right ... Much as I like you Acid, I fear you have been infected by your local Denier Chapter. I was once at the anti-war demo in London 2003-ish, ended up at Grosvenor square as a helicopter carrying Bush flew overhead. My wife was chatting to this guy she knew from her fundraising activities, he blagged a smoke off me and we hung around for 10 mins or so, then he politely excused himself as he had to make a speech, it was this guy... www.drax.com/sustainability/giving-up-coal/They estimate 1m people turned up this day....maybe it wasn't that much who knows, but it was alot. To old/uninterested now 😉
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Post by missouriboy on May 8, 2018 13:42:54 GMT
That cannot be right ... Much as I like you Acid, I fear you have been infected by your local Denier Chapter. I was once at the anti-war demo in London 2003-ish, ended up at Grosvenor square as a helicopter carrying Bush flew overhead. My wife was chatting to this guy she knew from her fundraising activities, he blagged a smoke off me and we hung around for 10 mins or so, then he politely excused himself as he had to make a speech, it was this guy... www.drax.com/sustainability/giving-up-coal/They estimate 1m people turned up this day....maybe it wasn't that much who knows, but it was alot. To old/uninterested now 😉 Sometimes They Even Appear To Be Green
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Post by nautonnier on May 29, 2018 15:00:53 GMT
Chiefio, E.M.Smith has a discussion here first on how to test for CO2 caused 'global warming'. However, in the discussion posts there is a rapid thread drift into identified global cooling Some of the posts are a little thought provoking such as from E.M.Smith himself: "The thing folks need to grasp is that the NORMAL state right now is Ice Age Glacial. We ONLY leave it for something like the Holocene during the BRIEF pulse of heating on the North Pole that is sufficient to get rid of the ice. Any other time is either meta-stable (like now or during the Younger Drias era with wide swings) or stable-Glacial.
Now the Really Big Question is just this: The Little Ice Age almost, but not quite, started the next glacial phase, then the next L.I.A. will be even colder; so is THIS cold excursion going to be sufficient to start the glacial cycle?
Note that we do NOT need even less sunshine to get there. We are already below the level where a glacial state can stabilize. All it takes is enough cold excursion ONCE to start the albedo feedback and get it big enough. (Where “big-enough” and “long-enough” are both unknown and might be as short as one summer and a bit more than the L.I.A.)."chiefio.wordpress.com/2018/05/29/a-modest-global-warming-test-idea/
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Post by glennkoks on Jun 4, 2018 16:56:52 GMT
I think the reference is to the Drax Power Sation, UK's largest. 3 of 6 boilers have been converted to use woodships/sawdust, imported from N America. A tree is felled, and moved to processing area Chipped, or saw dust utilised [call these biomass] Load biomass onto railway, transport to port. Make sure biomass is dry. Load onto ship, move ship across Atlantic Unload biomass onto train. Transport to Drax Dry before use [again] Burn A Martian might wonder how much energy was used in delivering wood from tree to input at furnace. Wood is a much less energy dense fuel than coal. Was this accounted for in "CO2 Saving" calculation?! I think much of the wood is mesquite harvested in Texas. Mesquite is dry and has an energy content somewhere between brown and black coal. It is considered an invasive plant here and pretty much dominates much of South Texas. I still don't comprehend how that much biomass harvested in Texas could compete with coal mined under the feet of people in the UK but this is usually what happens when the government gets involved. Inevitably we get much more pollution created and much less BTU's. fuelfix.com/blog/2013/04/28/europe-energy-found-in-corpus/
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Post by douglavers on Jun 4, 2018 23:27:37 GMT
glennkoks, I read somewhere that the wood came from SE US and Canada, but that's just detail!
Meanwhile, in [very] sunny OZ, the government is contemplating average emission limits for car companies selling cars here [106g gms per km has been mentioned].
Bearing in mind we are a very large, low pop density country with a lot of awful roads outside the cities, I wonder how the farmers are going to cope.
I don't think a Toyota Corolla will survive long in the Outback!!
BTW I had an argument with a cousin of mine yesterday. She is fanatically in favor of getting a million electric cars on the road [about 50% of our total]. My attempt to point out that the power grid will fail long before that level was not successful.
Apparently, each electric car is equivalent to putting 20 houses on the grid ...........
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Post by glennkoks on Jun 5, 2018 2:36:50 GMT
Doug,
I don't know how the worldwide economy can continue to flourish with these types of regulations. I think there are common sense steps we can take to let the free market flourish and still be good stewards of our environment.
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Post by nautonnier on Jun 5, 2018 9:37:13 GMT
glennkoks, I read somewhere that the wood came from SE US and Canada, but that's just detail! Meanwhile, in [very] sunny OZ, the government is contemplating average emission limits for car companies selling cars here [106g gms per km has been mentioned]. Bearing in mind we are a very large, low pop density country with a lot of awful roads outside the cities, I wonder how the farmers are going to cope. I don't think a Toyota Corolla will survive long in the Outback!! BTW I had an argument with a cousin of mine yesterday. She is fanatically in favor of getting a million electric cars on the road [about 50% of our total]. My attempt to point out that the power grid will fail long before that level was not successful. Apparently, each electric car is equivalent to putting 20 houses on the grid ........... I have the same problem with people that are convinced electricity comes from the socket. They have no concept of grid loading and just use the mantra 'smart meters' as if they can magically make more power available. It is a really simple calculation - approximately the same energy that is required to drive the current ICE cars will be required to drive EV cars. That amount of energy is not available through _any_ country's power grid on a consistent on demand way. Clever 'we-can-charge-up-in-15-minutes' flash chargers only make the situation worse. Elon Musk's chain of plug points across the country need a matching chain of power stations but even he didn't think that far.
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Post by nonentropic on Jun 5, 2018 10:05:08 GMT
call them what they are "coal fired cars".
You hear this discussion even on sites like this that such and such country is hydro mostly so the cars are running on "renewables".
Consider a car plugging into the mains in Norway fully Hydro Norway. What needs to be added is fully hydro and connected to the EU Norway, so plug your car into the mains and a coal fired station somewhere in the EU has to substitute the usage out with yes coal the lowest on the order of generation merit.
that is what they are "coal fired" I always ask people who claim this renewable status do they make the rain fall increase and if not then they are coal fired.
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Post by Ratty on Jun 5, 2018 12:15:41 GMT
call them what they are "coal fired cars". You hear this discussion even on sites like this that such and such country is hydro mostly so the cars are running on "renewables". Consider a car plugging into the mains in Norway fully Hydro Norway. What needs to be added is fully hydro and connected to the EU Norway, so plug your car into the mains and a coal fired station somewhere in the EU has to substitute the usage out with yes coal the lowest on the order of generation merit. that is what they are "coal fired" I always ask people who claim this renewable status do they make the rain fall increase and if not then they are coal fired.Non, what do you mean by that?
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Post by douglavers on Jun 5, 2018 12:45:23 GMT
[[Clever 'we-can-charge-up-in-15-minutes' flash chargers]]
I refuse to believe that ANY battery will take recharging on that basis every evening and last more than a few months.
The internal stresses on the battery components would/will be enormous.
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Post by nautonnier on Jun 5, 2018 15:05:45 GMT
call them what they are "coal fired cars". You hear this discussion even on sites like this that such and such country is hydro mostly so the cars are running on "renewables". Consider a car plugging into the mains in Norway fully Hydro Norway. What needs to be added is fully hydro and connected to the EU Norway, so plug your car into the mains and a coal fired station somewhere in the EU has to substitute the usage out with yes coal the lowest on the order of generation merit. that is what they are "coal fired" I always ask people who claim this renewable status do they make the rain fall increase and if not then they are coal fired.Non, what do you mean by that? Electric vehicles require a significant amount of power and it will be more than the current hydro power. The only source of that power is from interconnects to other countries that use coal or nuclear base load power. So while Non calls EVs 'coal fired' I call them remotely polluting vehicles
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Post by nonentropic on Jun 5, 2018 20:49:48 GMT
both definitions are correct but yours is dependent on the belief that CO2 is pollution.
Not always the case I would suggest.
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Post by nautonnier on Jun 5, 2018 21:27:20 GMT
both definitions are correct but yours is dependent on the belief that CO2 is pollution. Not always the case I would suggest. I disagree, CO2 is not a pollutant however other exhaust gases and particulates may be considered polluting such as sulphates and nitrates, although in modern plants these are not normally an issue
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