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Post by icefisher on Jul 4, 2015 18:19:07 GMT
What on Earth are you talking about? Simplify it so it can be understood. Sorry one should move at the pace of the slowest one in the room Andrew. My apologies. www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circles/Lesson-3/Newton-s-Law-of-Universal-GravitationThe rules of gravity are universal Andrew. Meaning of course the planets orbit the barycenters as does the sun. Are you ready to admit that? Or do you still think "the pea" describes something that disputes that notion that only the sun orbits the barycenter because is the only wobble ever observed independent of our solar system?
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Post by Andrew on Jul 4, 2015 18:31:12 GMT
What on Earth are you talking about? Simplify it so it can be understood. Sorry one should move at the pace of the slowest one in the room Andrew. My apologies. www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circles/Lesson-3/Newton-s-Law-of-Universal-GravitationThe rules of gravity are universal Andrew. Meaning of course the planets orbit the barycenters as does the sun. Are you ready to admit that? Or do you still think "the pea" describes something that disputes that notion that only the sun orbits the barycenter because is the only wobble ever observed independent of our solar system? I have no idea what your point is. All the planets are moving around the center of mass of the solar system because they are all tens of millions of kms from the Sun and the SSBC is only a few million kms from the Sun. The Earth and the Sun are pulled almost identically by the distant large planets. They both go around the barycenter. However, the earth is not falling towards the barycenter. Instead it falls principally towards the direction of the Sun What do you mean by 'orbit the Solar system barycenter'?? What do you mean by pulled towards the barycenter like a magnet?? >>the planets orbit the barycenters as does the sun What does that sentence mean?? What do you mean by orbit?? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
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Post by acidohm on Jul 4, 2015 18:57:39 GMT
That's funny because when icefisher explains it, it is exactly how I picture it in my mind.....but I struggle to follow u Andrew.....
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Post by icefisher on Jul 4, 2015 19:00:12 GMT
Sorry one should move at the pace of the slowest one in the room Andrew. My apologies. www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circles/Lesson-3/Newton-s-Law-of-Universal-GravitationThe rules of gravity are universal Andrew. Meaning of course the planets orbit the barycenters as does the sun. Are you ready to admit that? Or do you still think "the pea" describes something that disputes that notion that only the sun orbits the barycenter because is the only wobble ever observed independent of our solar system? I have no idea what your point is. All the planets are moving around the center of mass of the solar system because they are all tens of millions of kms from the Sun and the SSBC is only a few million kms from the Sun. The Earth and the Sun are pulled almost identically by the distant large planets so they both go around the barycenter together. However the earth is not falling towards the barycenter. Instead it falls principally towards the direction of the Sun What do you mean by 'orbit the Solar system barycenter'?? What do you mean by pulled towards the barycenter like a magnet?? >>the planets orbit the barycenters as does the sun What does that sentence mean?? What do you mean by orbit?? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The universal law of gravity describes 3 possible configurations. Consistent move toward separation, consistent movement toward collision, or orbit. I have no idea what the concept of "principle orbit" is in physics. Perhaps you could reduce that to an equation? Does it imply a special gravitational law? If you can't describe it scientifically Andrew I suggest you keep your religion out of the science.
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Post by acidohm on Jul 4, 2015 19:06:47 GMT
"The Earth and the Sun are pulled almost identically by the distant large planets so they both go around the barycenter together. However the earth is not falling towards the barycenter. Instead it falls principally towards the direction of the Sun"
Yes principally, but the barycentre is the centre of mass....the earth is NOT falling to the centre of the sun...It is falling to the barycentre because it, like the sun is ALSO affected by the gravitational pull of the other planets.
BUT the barycentre is mostly near the centre of the sun, but it's location depends on where other planets are in their orbits of the barycentre/sun.
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Post by Andrew on Jul 4, 2015 19:11:36 GMT
the earth is NOT falling to the centre of the sun...It is falling to the barycentre because it, like the sun is ALSO affected by the gravitational pull of the other planets. Sigh. The Earth is not falling towards the center of mass of the Solar system. That seems to be what Icefisher is claiming but i can never pin him down to work out what the hell he is talking about. Newton said Earth orbits the center of mass of the Sun, mercury and Venus. You need to understand that gravity weakens at the square of the distance. The SSBC only becomes relevant if you have the same amount of time to fall as the distant planets very slowly move - which is the case for the Sun. For the Earth, the result is the Earth falls mainly towards the Sun.
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Post by acidohm on Jul 4, 2015 19:12:21 GMT
Above....
To draw a parallel with nature in a way...barycentre and planetary orbits are a bit like a symbiosis. ..Each exists because of each other, and cannot exist without the other. .
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Post by acidohm on Jul 4, 2015 19:12:52 GMT
the earth is NOT falling to the centre of the sun...It is falling to the barycentre because it, like the sun is ALSO affected by the gravitational pull of the other planets. Sigh. The Earth is not falling towards the center of mass of the Solar system. That seems to be what Icefisher is claiming but i can never pin him down to work out what the hell he is talking about. Er.....yes it is.....It is the centre of mass......
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Post by Andrew on Jul 4, 2015 19:16:52 GMT
Above.... To draw a parallel with nature in a way...barycentre and planetary orbits are a bit like a symbiosis. ..Each exists because of each other, and cannot exist without the other. . Do you have an understanding of physics?
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Post by Andrew on Jul 4, 2015 19:19:30 GMT
Sigh. The Earth is not falling towards the center of mass of the Solar system. That seems to be what Icefisher is claiming but i can never pin him down to work out what the hell he is talking about. Er.....yes it is.....It is the centre of mass...... The centre of mass is only absolutely relevant gravitationally for small objects and not totally relevant for an object the size of the solar system. Gravity weakens at the square of the distance. The center of mass is moved away by distance and apparently has big importance but in fact hardly relevant at all for the Earths orbit because gravity weakens at the square of the distance
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Post by acidohm on Jul 4, 2015 19:19:54 GMT
I'd have thought anyone with an understanding of physics would be able to explain a reality and have it understood by others..........
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Post by Andrew on Jul 4, 2015 19:22:21 GMT
I'd have thought anyone with an understanding of physics would be able to explain a reality and have it understood my others.......... Read my comments just made. You need to understand that gravity weakens at the square of the distance.
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Post by acidohm on Jul 4, 2015 19:23:30 GMT
Er.....yes it is.....It is the centre of mass...... The centre of mass is only relevant gravitationally for small objects and not relevant for an object the size of the solar system. Gravity weakens at the square of the distance. The center of mass is moved away by distance and apparently has big importance but in fact hardly relevant at all for the Earths orbit because gravity weakens at the square of the distance Not disputing strength of effect, just that it exists....
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Post by Andrew on Jul 4, 2015 19:26:32 GMT
The centre of mass is only relevant gravitationally for small objects and not relevant for an object the size of the solar system. Gravity weakens at the square of the distance. The center of mass is moved away by distance and apparently has big importance but in fact hardly relevant at all for the Earths orbit because gravity weakens at the square of the distance Not disputing strength of effect, just that it exists.... You said the Earth falls towards the SSBC rather than the Sun? If that is your belief you are wrong and i have done my best to explain why you are wrong. If you want to argue your point you need to address what i have said about gravity weakening at the square of the distance so that I have more information as to the nature of how you are constructing your view point.
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Post by acidohm on Jul 4, 2015 19:29:46 GMT
Not disputing strength of effect, just that it exists.... You said the Earth falls towards the SSBC rather than the Sun? If that is your belief you are wrong and i have done my best to explain why you are wrong. If you want to argue your point you need to address what i have said about gravity weakening at the square of the distance so that I have more information as to the nature of how you are constructing your view point. Yet from what I understand. ..The measurable difference between our different view points has to be tiny
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