Bearing in mind that the North Atlantic is very cold at present, these graphs must be quite historic as they are still showing a positive heat anomaly.
BTW, Sigurdur, I am glad I don't live in North Dakota. An almost 100degC difference between record mins and maxs is too much!
There may be a pattern but there is insufficient period measured we may be looking at one ripple from one wave. There is completely insufficient data to define the state of the tides.
"The rules are simple: They lie to us. We know they are lying. They know we know they are lying, but they keep lying to us and we keep pretending to believe them."
Bearing in mind that the North Atlantic is very cold at present, these graphs must be quite historic as they are still showing a positive heat anomaly.
BTW, Sigurdur, I am glad I don't live in North Dakota. An almost 100degC difference between record mins and maxs is too much!
Melbourne looks balmy in comparison!
Maybe that filters my thinking when someone seems to think a few degrees etc is extreme?
If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed. -- Mark Twain
There may be a pattern but there is insufficient period measured we may be looking at one ripple from one wave. There is completely insufficient data to define the state of the tides.
I agree 100% nautonnier. The length of observational time, verses a 40-60 year cycle is too short to show much of anything.
If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed. -- Mark Twain
Is the AMO a natural phenomenon, or is it related to global warming?
Instruments have observed AMO cycles only for the last 150 years, not long enough to conclusively answer this question. However, studies of paleoclimate proxies, such as tree rings and ice cores, have shown that oscillations similar to those observed instrumentally have been occurring for at least the last millennium. This is clearly longer than modern man has been affecting climate, so the AMO is probably a natural climate oscillation. In the 20th century, the climate swings of the AMO have alternately camouflaged and exaggerated the effects of global warming, and made attribution of global warming more difficult to ascertain.
There may be a pattern but there is insufficient period measured we may be looking at one ripple from one wave. There is completely insufficient data to define the state of the tides.
Nautonnier, there are many studies which trace the quasi 60-year cycle back through history. Here is one which goes back 8,000 years.
There may be a pattern but there is insufficient period measured we may be looking at one ripple from one wave. There is completely insufficient data to define the state of the tides.
Nautonnier, there are many studies which trace the quasi 60-year cycle back through history. Here is one which goes back 8,000 years.
And no doubt the proxies gave SSTs to hundredths of a degree C? The granularity of the proxy measurements and the modern day measurements also mismatch smoothing the data. I doubt very much if anything 8000 years old can show a 60 year cycle. I am sure that the values can be cherrypicked to confirm the preconceptions of the particular observers though.
"The rules are simple: They lie to us. We know they are lying. They know we know they are lying, but they keep lying to us and we keep pretending to believe them."
And no doubt the proxies gave SSTs to hundredths of a degree C? The granularity of the proxy measurements and the modern day measurements also mismatch smoothing the data. I doubt very much if anything 8000 years old can show a 60 year cycle. I am sure that the values can be cherry picked to confirm the preconceptions of the particular observers though.
The point isn't whether the 8,000 year data point in this particular study is an absolute certainty or not. The point is that if you look there are many studies which indicate the approximately 60 year cycle is much more than 1 "ripple". I believe the quasi 60-year cycle is one of the more credible things that climate scientists tell us.
And no doubt the proxies gave SSTs to hundredths of a degree C? The granularity of the proxy measurements and the modern day measurements also mismatch smoothing the data. I doubt very much if anything 8000 years old can show a 60 year cycle. I am sure that the values can be cherry picked to confirm the preconceptions of the particular observers though.
The point isn't whether the 8,000 year data point in this particular study is an absolute certainty or not. The point is that if you look there are many studies which indicate the approximately 60 year cycle is much more than 1 "ripple". I believe the quasi 60-year cycle is one of the more credible things that climate scientists tell us.
There may be such a cycle, it is used in Chinese astrology. "The solar cycle of Jupiter - Saturn around the sun takes 59.6 years or 60 years, for Earth, Jupiter and Saturn to reach the same or original alignment around the sun. The 60 years is the time between alignments of Earth, Saturn and Jupiter which would incorporate all geophysical changes, which in turn would impact on our biological bodies. "
I would think that Theodore could assist you with the linkage of AMO to the cycles of Jupiter, Saturn and Earth around the Sun. The only link that would make sense to me would be the change in the center of mass of the Solar System altering the orbit of the Earth which affects the currents constrained in the Atlantic basin due to their inertia and all sorts of other complex effects. Where is an astrometeorologist when you need one?
"The rules are simple: They lie to us. We know they are lying. They know we know they are lying, but they keep lying to us and we keep pretending to believe them."
Is this anything to do with bunny, er...baxi, um berries, what's that thing...strangely can't remember the word, think I've got some sort of bad experience associated with it...;-)
Is this anything to do with bunny, er...baxi, um berries, what's that thing...strangely can't remember the word, think I've got some sort of bad experience associated with it...;-)
Me too ... got caught in a berrycenter once ... scratched the 'thingyens' out of myself.
I used the word d-i-c-k-e-n-s (without the dashes) and this silly program changed it to 'thingyens'. Who would have known.
Last Edit: Dec 2, 2015 21:06:04 GMT by missouriboy
Is this anything to do with bunny, er...baxi, um berries, what's that thing...strangely can't remember the word, think I've got some sort of bad experience associated with it...;-)
Me too ... got caught in a berrycenter once ... scratched the 'thingyens' out of myself.
I used the word d-i-c-k-e-n-s (without the dashes) and this silly program changed it to 'thingyens'. Who would have known.
Yeah...its a shame because some people are called thingy and can't use their name here!!
The system should add 'the word we dare not mention' too. The subject has the strangest effect, not just here.
I would love to see a conclusive calculation on the matter but physics at this time doesn't seem to be fully able to explain the issue satisfactorily.
I see merit to the idea but it's the scales involved that cause friction between people.
Either one group of people are not seeing the subtlies involved, or those that see the subtlies don't appreciate they're too subtle. Neither side can convince the other because, well, the differences are..Small.
Is this anything to do with bunny, er...baxi, um berries, what's that thing...strangely can't remember the word, think I've got some sort of bad experience associated with it...;-)
Me too ... got caught in a berrycenter once ... scratched the 'thingyens' out of myself.
I used the word d-i-c-k-e-n-s (without the dashes) and this silly program changed it to 'thingyens'. Who would have known.
what do you expect with scratching in such a reprehensible way?
icefisher "All these fifty years of conscious brooding have brought me no nearer to the answer to the question, “What are light quanta?”. Nowadays every Tom, Dicck and Harry thinks he knows it, but he is mistaken." (Einstein shortly before his death 1954)
icefisher "All these fifty years of conscious brooding have brought me no nearer to the answer to the question, “What are light quanta?”. Nowadays every Tom, Dicck and Harry thinks he knows it, but he is mistaken." (Einstein shortly before his death 1954)