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Post by walnut on Aug 18, 2017 4:21:44 GMT
I agree, his NK statements seemed reckless probably by design. We'll have to wait to see how history judges this unusual president. Just remember, the alternative was Hillary Clinton. These 2 are the premium distilled product that we had to choose from. The Donald is more like a boot-legged swamp liquor with the winsome character of an Andrew Jackson ... distilled we hope to disperse the noxious gases emanating from those wastelands. Andrew never met an opponent he didn't want to bury ... Donald is a little less blood thirsty, but just as mouthy. Senator Corker was in the news today. Doesn't he resemble Andrew Jackson, also from Tennessee?
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Post by icefisher on Aug 18, 2017 5:02:40 GMT
Tax reform isn't bogged down. They just need to get it done by November. If not then one could say its bogged down. Myself I am inclined to give credit to Trump for all the stock market gains since he became President elect. The surge at that time was due to a market nervous about continued and increasing government interference in business. The election of Trump eased those fears. As to Trump unsettling markets, I think its meaningless even if he is. Markets tend to be hysterical. Today in the heavily politically-correct environment of the last few decades its just flab that needs to be worked off. Results are what counts. I tend to think that folks are not going to blame Trump for what the Republican congress cannot do. He is doing an awful lot without Congress from reorgs to hiring freezes to reversal of Obama executive orders. And he is bringing results in foreign and immigration policy. Trump is the first US President, I believe, to have a degree in economics. I think it shows. Icefisher, If you are willing to give President Trump credit for "all the market gains since he became President elect" are you also willing to give President Obama all of the market gains that happened under his tenure? From 6500 plus or minus to 18,000? Is what's good for the Goose also good for the Gander? Did the election of Mr. Obama ease fears as well? Do Mr. Obama's results count? It's easy to assign blame or give credit to someone when you see fit. Actually I wouldn't. A rebound was built in after the 2008 crash. The market from its peak in 2008 to the end of 2016 should have been about 22,500 with average performance. So you might say Trump has righted the ship. So bottom line is don't think the stockmarket moves strictly on the basis of presidential ideology and actions. As the market moves you have to look for the underlying reason. The market reforms post 2008 did not arise out of presidential ideology. I think you can credit Obama for not screwing them up, which he could have if he had come into his first term like he did his second term. Like I said Trump is the only President with a degree in economics and one from probably the best school you can get one from. His ideology to me seems clearly the dominate factor in reversing the Obama 2nd term malaise. The programs he has said he wants to get through Congress will do a lot more if he can get Congress to go along.
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Post by Ratty on Aug 18, 2017 5:19:59 GMT
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 18, 2017 6:46:31 GMT
I wouldn't join the chorus of 'he's really done it now nobody will [support him in the primaries | vote for him in the election |give him the electoral college votes | believe he can deal with China/NK/Russia]" There is huge pressure from the media to report failure and smother any sounds of success. Consider that NK was 'the same as the Cuba crisis' - Trump appears to have dampened that down and suddenly its on page B12 below the fold. Leo Goldstein posted Why the Former Elites With the Best Access to Information are the Most Misinformed? wattsupwiththat.com/2017/08/17/why-the-former-elites-with-the-best-access-to-information-are-the-most-misinformed/I think he is a little credulous himself as some of the misinformed is actually part of the same affectation being deliberately rather than accidentally generated. But the entire article is a good read - remember _everything_ you are reading online has been filtered to omit some stories/facts and repeatedly emphasize others to the level of caricature.
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Post by icefisher on Aug 18, 2017 7:17:32 GMT
Typical stuff from the neo-conservative press. They really hate Trump. As I see it who you want to call out in Charlotteville are the folks guilty of felonious assault. One can call the ideology of white supremists and neo-nazis as repugnant but keep it in perspective, ideology is a constitutionally protected right. Seems media and just about everybody who dislikes Trump doesn't want to get into the weeds on this. Its more important it seems to call out an ideology than the felonies that were committed. Scary scary stuff indeed.
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Post by walnut on Aug 18, 2017 14:16:41 GMT
The left is thrilled when their shock troops burn down neighborhoods in the name of "resistance" and "black lives matter".
But even a whisper of "white nationalism" evokes dark thoughts of sinister evil and is absolutely forbidden.
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 18, 2017 14:33:13 GMT
The left is thrilled when their shock troops burn down neighborhoods in the name of "resistance" and "black lives matter". Indeed, the left has always had these, they used to be called die Sturmabteilung and in the same way wore distinctive shirts; psychological projection is an art form for progressives.
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Post by missouriboy on Aug 18, 2017 15:11:34 GMT
The Donald is more like a boot-legged swamp liquor with the winsome character of an Andrew Jackson ... distilled we hope to disperse the noxious gases emanating from those wastelands. Andrew never met an opponent he didn't want to bury ... Donald is a little less blood thirsty, but just as mouthy. Senator Corker was in the news today. Doesn't he resemble Andrew Jackson, also from Tennessee? Perhaps the early 1950s easy childhood, easy youth-hood version. No aristocratic officers or inconvenient wars (that couldn't be avoided) rained on his parade. No ethnic cleansing jobs required. Personal business labor could be hired, not purchased. West English Celtic versus Scots-Irish origins? Late 20th century neo-southern gentleman versus wild late-18th century warrior. Other than that, an amazing resemblance.
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Post by walnut on Aug 18, 2017 15:20:51 GMT
I'm with you, the resemblance is only superficial. You probably even correctly nailed the dna origins.
This Corker is not from my tribe.
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 18, 2017 15:54:27 GMT
Senator Corker was in the news today. Doesn't he resemble Andrew Jackson, also from Tennessee? Perhaps the early 1950s easy childhood, easy youth-hood version. No aristocratic officers or inconvenient wars (that couldn't be avoided) rained on his parade. No ethnic cleansing jobs required. Personal business labor could be hired, not purchased. West English Celtic versus Scots-Irish origins? Late 20th century neo-southern gentleman versus wild late-18th century warrior. Other than that, an amazing resemblance. Unfortunately, the resemblance like beauty is only skin deep.
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Post by missouriboy on Aug 18, 2017 16:07:32 GMT
The left is thrilled when their shock troops burn down neighborhoods in the name of "resistance" and "black lives matter". But even a whisper of "white nationalism" evokes dark thoughts of sinister evil and is absolutely forbidden. The pre-printed signs of the first-response shock troops carry the logo of the World Workers (or equivalent). They could care less about the political correctness of statues or historical figures. Their goal is what it always was ... sow and exploit dissent to destroy the American Republic. The hardcore communists of the 1950s have merely reorganized for another shot at the 'ring'. Social discord is very much in their interest just as it is for the far right. Ideologies rarely go away. They merely morph to new circumstances, which come in waves ... just like aggressive Islamic expansionism. There is nothing new here ... in a historical perspective. Defenders of the Republic need to understand that this fight is not about statues. The ultra-left attacks 'symbols' to evoke a rally to the standards of the ulta-right. Trump is quite correct to identify the dual-nature of the assault. Those who in political correctness refuse to balance their perspective and drift to the middle may invoke the whirlwind. Review the political storms of the late 1850s. New times and players, but similar opposition forces. By comparison, the late 1920s and 30s 'may' look relatively benign. Then Americans rallied to the national symbol, while Europe descended into darkness.
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Post by icefisher on Aug 18, 2017 17:06:31 GMT
The left is thrilled when their shock troops burn down neighborhoods in the name of "resistance" and "black lives matter". But even a whisper of "white nationalism" evokes dark thoughts of sinister evil and is absolutely forbidden. White nationalism may be motivated by real and legitimate fears, but its every bit as ignorant as Black Lives Matter which also is motivated by real and legitimate fears. I tend to believe, but may be wrong, that many self described white nationalists aren't racists and that their fears are the loss of a culture that created the economic miracle of what the United States became. Attributing that all to whites is wrong however. It is ignorant. Attributing it to a culture of freedom, rule of law, and self sufficiency is not wrong. Whites, particularly Protestant Calvinists pursuing a philosophy of hard work and frugality invented the culture but its success has come from persons of all creeds and races whom have embraced it. In other words it has been the openness of the culture to new adherents that has changed the culture from a narrow one to a broad one. Though openness has had its fits and starts, our founders who drew upon philosophies of both the east and west forged a Constitution that has served to keep the door open. Those who would limit it to family members, or members of the same race, etc. would condemn the culture to eons of strife and limited success (ala tribalism)
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Post by icefisher on Aug 18, 2017 17:20:27 GMT
The left is thrilled when their shock troops burn down neighborhoods in the name of "resistance" and "black lives matter". But even a whisper of "white nationalism" evokes dark thoughts of sinister evil and is absolutely forbidden. The pre-printed signs of the first-response shock troops carry the logo of the World Workers (or equivalent). They could care less about the political correctness of statues or historical figures. Their goal is what it always was ... sow and exploit dissent to destroy the American Republic. The hardcore communists of the 1950s have merely reorganized for another shot at the 'ring'. Social discord is very much in their interest just as it is for the far right. Ideologies rarely go away. They merely morph to new circumstances, which come in waves ... just like aggressive Islamic expansionism. There is nothing new here ... in a historical perspective. Defenders of the Republic need to understand that this fight is not about statues. The ultra-left attacks 'symbols' to evoke a rally to the standards of the ulta-right. Trump is quite correct to identify the dual-nature of the assault. Those who in political correctness refuse to balance their perspective and drift to the middle may invoke the whirlwind. Review the political storms of the late 1850s. New times and players, but similar opposition forces. By comparison, the late 1920s and 30s 'may' look relatively benign. Then Americans rallied to the national symbol, while Europe descended into darkness. This is true. Up until recently the white supremists showed up with regalia and flags. After the Antifa assaults early this year in Berkeley they are now showing up with the same weapons as Antifa. The left is instigating the violence and finding the willing participants they hoped to find. I saw a CNN reporter exclaiming: "you see a moral equivalence here" to a person defending Trumps statements that both sides were to blame. No there is no moral equivalence of violence compared to exercising your right to freedom of belief and expression. Felonious assault is far more immoral in every case. Fascism came to Germany because and only because of the citizenry accepting violence for what they saw as a just cause. The rule of law must prevail or as Ronald Reagan predicted: "if fascism comes to America it will come from the left". History is full of people thought to have good intentions whom didn't ever stop to respect anybody else.
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Post by missouriboy on Aug 18, 2017 17:29:13 GMT
I'm with you, the resemblance is only superficial. You probably even correctly nailed the dna origins. This Corker is not from my tribe. The tribes are getting restless again ... and need to review the 'commonality' of their origins and ideologies that emerged in a very small area. If you look at the genetic (YDNA) assemblages of surnames that emerged in central-west England, you can literally see the structure of history. Surname 'Hoskins' as an example. I found some individuals (that had tested) that were very closely related to other members of my 'genetic tribe'. What a mixture ... Celtic, Anglo and Nordic genetic markers (and probably subclades of each as well). By the time surnames came into common usage (after 1000 AD) the surname tribe contained the changing retainer structure of the economic hierarchy that shifted from Celt to Anglo-Saxon to Norman over a period of many centuries. There is probably Roman and 'old' British hidden in there as well. Many other surnames show the same structure. The tribes of the extreme Celtic fringe retained a more homogeneous genetic structure. It was in these mid-lands areas of the British Isles that the long struggle from the Magna Carta to the Enlightenment with its liberal infusion of Christian tenets evolved (with much disagreement and bloodshed) and was ultimately transplanted to the North American colonies and redrafted into the 'refined' tenets of our own documents. English itself is a 'lingua franca' that evolved between peoples who learned to live together. Fast forward over the last 300 years and we see a growing genetic, cultural tribe that has, with noted exceptions, been largely successful based on ONE requirement (internal struggle and bloodshed noted) ... individual allegiance to one set of tenets. WE SHOULD STOP APOLOGIZING FOR OUR HISTORY ... and absolutely resist any group that's set on changing the core of these tenets. If we do not, the result will not be pretty folks.
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Post by missouriboy on Aug 18, 2017 17:54:54 GMT
'We are... in the fightin' Nazis business,' said Antifa member and The Nation journalist Natasha Lennard, in a piece titled 'It's time to make Nazis afraid again.
That is EXACTLY NOT the business they are in! They are in the "grab the power structure and change the cultural tenets business". Exactly like the Islamists. Supression has taken on an 'ugly' cultural meaning. But it is exactly because such groups were not suppressed that Nazis and Bolsheviks came to power in Germany and Russia. Is Reagan's comment that "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice" still applicable? It is interesting to note that the root 'antifa' is within spitting distance of its cousin 'intifada'.
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