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Post by socold on Apr 18, 2009 1:38:57 GMT
as it's relevant
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Post by magellan on Apr 18, 2009 4:18:40 GMT
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Post by glc on Apr 18, 2009 8:23:15 GMT
That's after Hadley's "adjustments". www.anenglishmanscastle.com/archives/004482.html Hadley adjusts for UHI so the final UHI is always lower than the measured temperatures. I have access to a temperature record which is located roughly in the centre of the CET region but is not used by the CET. The surrounding environment where the station is located is virtually unchanged in 60 years. This record shows that, if anything, Hadley adjusts too much for urban heat. It's perfectly possible, therefore, that current CET temperatures are too low. If you somehow think that the CET region has not warmed in the last 30 or 40 years - try telling that to someone around here who is over the age of 50. One of the reasons AGW gained such a firm foothold in the UK is because the general public are only too aware that it is much warmer now than in the 1960s and 1970s - and, take it from me, it's got nothing to do with urban heat.
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Post by william on Apr 18, 2009 9:45:17 GMT
Record cold temperatures in the US and 100 year snowfall records. Extremely cold arctic air is the culprit. Also of course the snow reflects short wave radiation back into space. AWG requires long wave radiation. Snow and sea ice are positive feedback mechanism that multiple a cooling change in the climate at high latitudes. news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090418/ap_on_re_us/spring_snowstorm;_ylt=Avs12nzhXIP5idO02fKPbuKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTJoZTJtMGoyBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNDE4L3NwcmluZ19zbm93c3Rvcm0EY3BvcwMzBHBvcwM4BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3Nub3dzdG9ybXdlYQ--DENVER – A spring storm was weakening after dumping up to 3 feet of snow on the foothills west of Denver — stranding hundreds of people in shelters and forcing the closure of an 80-mile stretch of Interstate 70. Transportation officials shut down I-70 between Vail and Golden in the late afternoon Friday because of wet, heavy snow and multiple accidents. The American Red Cross opened a second shelter in Idaho Springs late Friday after its first shelter there filled to capacity with more than 300 people, said Jim Rettew, a spokesman for the organization's Mile High Chapter. On Friday, heavy, wet snow closed highways, canceled flights, caused power outages and forced school closures in parts of Colorado and Wyoming. Snow accumulations of 3 to 4 feet were recorded in the mountains, with 4 to 6 inches measured in Denver. Nearly 3 feet of snow had fallen by Friday afternoon in Rocky Mountain National Park about 60 miles northwest of Denver, forcing officials to close its Beaver Meadows and Fall River entrances because snowplows couldn't keep up.
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dc51
Level 2 Rank
Posts: 97
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Post by dc51 on Apr 18, 2009 12:11:40 GMT
Record cold temperatures in the US and 100 year snowfall records. Extremely cold arctic air is the culprit. Also of course the snow reflects short wave radiation back into space. AWG requires long wave radiation. Snow and sea ice are positive feedback mechanism that multiple a cooling change in the climate at high latitudes. news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090418/ap_on_re_us/spring_snowstorm;_ylt=Avs12nzhXIP5idO02fKPbuKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTJoZTJtMGoyBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNDE4L3NwcmluZ19zbm93c3Rvcm0EY3BvcwMzBHBvcwM4BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3Nub3dzdG9ybXdlYQ--DENVER – A spring storm was weakening after dumping up to 3 feet of snow on the foothills west of Denver — stranding hundreds of people in shelters and forcing the closure of an 80-mile stretch of Interstate 70. Transportation officials shut down I-70 between Vail and Golden in the late afternoon Friday because of wet, heavy snow and multiple accidents. The American Red Cross opened a second shelter in Idaho Springs late Friday after its first shelter there filled to capacity with more than 300 people, said Jim Rettew, a spokesman for the organization's Mile High Chapter. On Friday, heavy, wet snow closed highways, canceled flights, caused power outages and forced school closures in parts of Colorado and Wyoming. Snow accumulations of 3 to 4 feet were recorded in the mountains, with 4 to 6 inches measured in Denver. Nearly 3 feet of snow had fallen by Friday afternoon in Rocky Mountain National Park about 60 miles northwest of Denver, forcing officials to close its Beaver Meadows and Fall River entrances because snowplows couldn't keep up. So William, how does this compare to previous years?
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Post by socold on Apr 18, 2009 12:24:34 GMT
They have to adjust it, because the raw data is wrong. These are experts in this area working very hard to try and compile a decent temperature record for us from flawed raw data. It's a difficult task involving understanding all the different factors (yes including UHI). It is relatively easy for skeptics to simply cast rumours and smear that they are doing it incorrectly, even if they are not. The key fact to me is that while we hear from skeptics that the records are adjusted wrong, none of these skeptics have made their own record showing us what the temperature record and adjustments would look like if done properly. This is quite amazing given we have had years, if not decades, of the same argument from skeptics, but not one of them has tried to produce the work. It's as if they are saying "On such a topic of interest, the human race has not one person willing to honestly compile a temperature record for recent decades". Ludicrous! In fact I think it's plausible that some of the skeptics have tried to produce their own record, but we never heard of it because it yeilded the wrong results (ie didn't disagree with the expert produced records enough) This would because doing it right actually leads to the same kind of record the experts have already produced. Ie the experts are already doing it right. Therefore for skeptics to get significantly less warming from the records they would have to commit fraud, and they simply don't want to go down that route because it would be easily uncovered. Therefore all we see is sniping from the sidelines.
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Post by jimcripwell on Apr 18, 2009 13:45:11 GMT
socold writes "Therefore all we see is sniping from the sidelines. "
Did I miss something? I thought Dr. Roy Spencer was a climate skeptic. Or does his data and writings constitute "sniping from the sidelines"?
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Post by hilbert on Apr 18, 2009 15:02:42 GMT
Very light snow here on 17 April. Not an extreme event, but not common at this time of year.
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Post by tacoman25 on Apr 18, 2009 17:36:50 GMT
as it's relevant The average for 2009 so far is only a little above the 1961-90 means. That's considerably cooler than most recent years. Anyone who thought that temperatures would suddenly drop to early 20th century levels this quickly was not being realistic. It took a long time for temperatures to reach the levels of the 1998-2005 period, and if they are going back down now, it's not going to happen overnight.
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Post by gettingchilly on Apr 18, 2009 21:42:20 GMT
"These are experts in this area working very hard to try and compile a decent temperature record for us from flawed raw data."
Come on socold. All that most people ask is that the raw data is published and if any adjustment is made, we would like to see the algorithm applied and the reason. All we get is black boxes fudging the truth. Why are all adjustments upwards when half the world is covered in snow?
As for calling them experts, I think that may also need adjustments.
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Post by glc on Apr 19, 2009 0:13:25 GMT
Come on socold. All that most people ask is that the raw data is published and if any adjustment is made, we would like to see the algorithm applied and the reason. All we get is black boxes fudging the truth. Why are all adjustments upwards when half the world is covered in snow? They aren't all upwards. Almost all CET adjustments are downwards to remove the UH effect.
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Post by byz on Apr 22, 2009 8:31:37 GMT
Lovely weather here in the UK this week (makes a change Easter Sunday was more like Autumn). It should last until the weekend here in the South East. My tomatoes are growing well
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Post by tilmari on Apr 22, 2009 10:45:21 GMT
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Post by astrodragon on Apr 22, 2009 12:28:22 GMT
That's after Hadley's "adjustments". www.anenglishmanscastle.com/archives/004482.html Hadley adjusts for UHI so the final UHI is always lower than the measured temperatures. I have access to a temperature record which is located roughly in the centre of the CET region but is not used by the CET. The surrounding environment where the station is located is virtually unchanged in 60 years. This record shows that, if anything, Hadley adjusts too much for urban heat. It's perfectly possible, therefore, that current CET temperatures are too low. If you somehow think that the CET region has not warmed in the last 30 or 40 years - try telling that to someone around here who is over the age of 50. One of the reasons AGW gained such a firm foothold in the UK is because the general public are only too aware that it is much warmer now than in the 1960s and 1970s - and, take it from me, it's got nothing to do with urban heat. Yes indeed, why not tell it to me. I'm in the UK, and I'm over 50. And I dont believe you. Your memory and accounts of the UK weather do seems somewhat..selective... Yes, been a very pleasant spring here, for a change. Not as warm as it seems (at least until this week), but its been sunny and no wind, so felt very pleasant. And while its been warm this week (21C in the south), its been getting down to freezing at night in the north. Anyone who bases climate on the UK weather (especially the weather in spring or autumn) is nuts. Our weather is so variable at any time we are always getting cold/warm/wet/dry/etc for the time of year. This year, we seem to have had a rether persistent high presure sitting over the South of the country and fending off the Atlantic fronts which usually give us a wet and windy March. But it isnt that unusual to have a nice April, I remember quite a few. Note the graph shows it isnt terribly better than 1960-90 (a nicely cherry-picked date range, that, it was bl**dy cold in 1960-80).
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Post by william on Apr 22, 2009 18:41:03 GMT
solarcycle24com.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=globalwarming&action=display&thread=464&page=5#16891Hi DC51, Spring in the Central US and Prarrie region of Canada has been much colder than in past years. Winter was 3C colder than average throughout that those regions. I am at Latitude North 51 degree. Some snow forecasted for today. Lows for the next couple of days -8C. Intense storms as the extremely cold arctic air moves down to interact with warmer air. As noted in the other posts, arctic sea ice is expanding.
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