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Post by hilbert on Mar 3, 2009 23:40:32 GMT
I've have some interest in eventually converting to PV, so I've been interested in the numbers for the last couple of years. A friend who knows a lot about this says that the "break-even" cost is when electricity is about 18 cents (US) / kW hr (without any tax incentives). I'm paying at about the 9 cents / kW hr marginal rate, so it will be a while, but articles such as this: www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/4306443.htmlare interesting. I estimated a while ago that it would cost about $30k (US) for a 3+ kW system, so a cost of $1/W (just for the panels) seems like quite a reduction.
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Post by Kevin VE3EN on Mar 4, 2009 14:00:18 GMT
My friend Rob has a bunch of solar panels up and I believe 4 or 5 lights in the house are all run off of it. I will probably look into solar energy in the future.
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Post by Maui on Mar 16, 2009 17:02:02 GMT
I lived with solar for many years in Hawaii, and there are LOTS of problems. Things like refrigerators, toasters, and even most gas stoves chug too much electricity. Solar is best suited for businesses, which need electricity during the day and -- except for heating or air conditioning -- often have fairly constant, low-level energy needs (compared to roof surface area).
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Post by hilbert on Mar 25, 2009 0:37:24 GMT
How large was your system, in kW and in size? What were the problems?
Thanks, hilbert
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dc51
Level 2 Rank
Posts: 97
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Post by dc51 on Mar 27, 2009 20:14:07 GMT
Hi guys, Not great average sun where I am, but perhaps in a few years PV will become a more practicable option. 40% efficient? www.redherring.com/Home/25919
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Post by Maui on Mar 30, 2009 17:32:39 GMT
We just had a couple hundred watts of panels...
One of the many problems was phantom loads. We found that our satellite receiver chugged huge amounts of electricity even when "off." I had wall switches on the plugs for phantom items. But if the power is not reaching the appliance, complex electronics tended to get damaged from humidity. So TV's would only last few years, and we had to buy a new satellite receiver about every year.
And then my wife bought a new "Sears Best" gas range. But most gas ovens these days are lit by glow plugs instead of more expensive, complex pilots or piezo ignition. We found that the thing used almost as much electricity as a toaster! We traded it (at a big loss) for "Sears Worst" cheap stove with all-pilots. My neighbor had a glow-plug oven, and was always having trouble at fall and winter holidays when there was little sunshine and a lot of baking.
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kaz
New Member
Posts: 22
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Post by kaz on Mar 31, 2009 9:38:58 GMT
I got a solar hot water system installed in December (our summer) and its gas boosted so we'll always have hot water regardless of the weather. So far its been brilliant, my energy bills have been cut by over one third. Given that hot water is around one-third of your electricity bill and you can buy and install it for around $1000 (aussie dollars after Goverment rebates) - its pay back period will be around 2 years. Before the rebates started the payback period on solar was around 7 years so it wasnt really worth it if you weren't in your home for the long term. I don't know if you have the Government rebates over there, but it might be worth looking at just switching your hot water to solar rather than your whole supply.
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Post by hilbert on Mar 31, 2009 16:58:53 GMT
But most gas ovens these days are lit by glow plugs instead of more expensive, complex pilots or piezo ignition. We found that the thing used almost as much electricity as a toaster! We have an old gas pilot light. Is it difficult to find the piezo ignition systems?
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Post by Maui on Apr 6, 2009 17:29:51 GMT
It is VERY hard to find an oven with a piezo system; I think Premier was the brand of our old little stove (before we tried to upgrade). The peizo system used so little power that the inverter "search" would not find a load when we tried to ignite the stove. So we would have to turn on a light or something to get the stove to work...
Solar hot water is a different matter; it is simple and cost effective. When I first moved in to the rural home in Hawaii, we used a "sun shower" for quite a while... It's simply a bag of water with a clear top, black bottom, and a hose with shower head. We would hang it up after it sat in the sun for a few hours, and have nice warm showers.
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Post by hilbert on Apr 11, 2009 22:48:10 GMT
So, it sounds as though these glow plugs are on continuously?
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Post by hilbert on Apr 18, 2009 15:08:45 GMT
My state recently passed a bill that would add a 10% tax credit to the (I believe) already existing 30% federal tax credit. PV is now getting close to cost-effective (with the subsidies) here.
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Post by Maui on Apr 27, 2009 22:27:35 GMT
"Cost effective" depends on your lifestyle and needs. It sort-of worked in Hawaii, but here in the Pacific Northwest it's too cold and cloudy and electricity is cheap (7.5 cents / kw). I heat by wood and have a propane stove, so electricity is for fridge, hot water, back-up heat, and of course hot tub.
I think the tax credit in Hawaii was 30% for some of my installation. The fellow who bought my home said electricity on the grid is 42 cents per kilowatt there.
The glow plug on the stove is on continuously WHEN THE OVEN IS ON. So if you cook a turkey for four hours, the glow plug is on the entire time even though the flame cycles on and off. Thus, most gas ovens do not work at all during a power outage.
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Post by hilbert on May 3, 2009 15:32:26 GMT
A friend of mine said that the break-even point for cost effectiveness is about 18 cents/kW.hr (without any subsidies). My marginal cost is about 9 cents/kW.hr, so there's a ways to go, even with the subsidies.
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Post by Maui on May 5, 2009 2:38:54 GMT
A friend of mine said that the break-even point for cost effectiveness is about 18 cents/kW.hr (without any subsidies). My marginal cost is about 9 cents/kW.hr, so there's a ways to go, even with the subsidies. ...which is about the same price electricity was when they first came out with it. In 1929, a Skagit electric power authority was quoted as saying that at six cents per kilowatt, electric heat was only economically viable for the "ridiculously rich."
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Post by hilbert on May 8, 2009 18:38:52 GMT
Of course, 6 cents was worth a lot more back then...
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