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Post by ebrainsh on Mar 10, 2009 19:15:51 GMT
This should be fun. How many catastrophic and horrific events can be attributed to CO2? To get this theme off the ground, our friend Dan Hogan from ScienceDaily posted this story today. Coral Reefs May Start Dissolving When Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Doubles
ScienceDaily (Mar. 10, 2009) — Rising carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and the resulting effects on ocean water are making it increasingly difficult for coral reefs to grow, say scientists. A study to be published online March 13, 2009 in Geophysical Research Letters by researchers at the Carnegie Institution and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem warns that if carbon dioxide reaches double pre-industrial levels, coral reefs can be expected to not just stop growing, but also to begin dissolving all over the world. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090309162125.htm |
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Post by tobyglyn on Mar 10, 2009 20:31:21 GMT
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Post by nautonnier on Mar 10, 2009 20:39:42 GMT
To cross post from the thread referenced below.... Coral Reefs May Start Dissolving When Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide DoublesCO2 is very potent. SD does it again. Where is the empirical data? Does anyone here have any thoughts on this? ScienceDaily (Mar. 10, 2009) — Rising carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and the resulting effects on ocean water are making it increasingly difficult for coral reefs to grow, say scientists. A study to be published online March 13, 2009 in Geophysical Research Letters by researchers at the Carnegie Institution and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem warns that if carbon dioxide reaches double pre-industrial levels, coral reefs can be expected to not just stop growing, but also to begin dissolving all over the world.
CO2 has been many times higher than now and life thrived. The problem with some scientists is they appear like the creationists to believe that nothing existed before satellites, or perhaps they view everything in terms of AG - After Gore 
Looks like another abject failure of peer review - but then any 'sky is falling due to CO 2' paper gets nodded through without being read. I wonder if Obama's recent announcement that scientists should be able to publish research even if its not popular will have any effect? No I thought not |
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Post by socold on Mar 10, 2009 21:08:33 GMT
To cross post from the thread referenced below.... Strange - corals actually developed during periods when CO2 was higher than now. Many of the chalk and limestone deposits were laid down by huge numbers of small molluscs and coral that thrived for thousands of years in higher atmospheric levels of CO2.
CO2 has been many times higher than now and life thrived. The problem with some scientists is they appear like the creationists to believe that nothing existed before satellites, or perhaps they view everything in terms of AG - After Gore
Looks like another abject failure of peer review - but then any 'sky is falling due to CO 2' paper gets nodded through without being read. Why assume a failure of peer review, or in fact a failure of experts to even grasp such a simple argument, when a far far far better explaination is that this layman you quote has got it wrong? Corals tens and hundreds of millions of years ago are not the same species as today. If today's corals cannot adapt fast enough to rising acidity then they perish. That's the issue and it's a very valid one. There is a long history of laypeople, such as the guy you posted, assuming that their simple and "obvious" arguments crush what experts have concluded. In fact ironically, in light of the quote above, one group of laypeople that regularly claim they have simple crushing arguments that scientists have missed are creationists. |
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Post by gettingchilly on Mar 10, 2009 21:26:34 GMT
You seem to be clutching at straws nowadays socold.
Time to take off the blinkers and get your head out of the nosebag maybe?
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Post by nautonnier on Mar 10, 2009 22:23:40 GMT
To cross post from the thread referenced below.... Looks like another abject failure of peer review - but then any 'sky is falling due to CO 2' paper gets nodded through without being read. Why assume a failure of peer review, or in fact a failure of experts to even grasp such a simple argument, when a far far far better explaination is that this layman you quote has got it wrong? Corals tens and hundreds of millions of years ago are not the same species as today. If today's corals cannot adapt fast enough to rising acidity then they perish. That's the issue and it's a very valid one. There is a long history of laypeople, such as the guy you posted, assuming that their simple and "obvious" arguments crush what experts have concluded. In fact ironically, in light of the quote above, one group of laypeople that regularly claim they have simple crushing arguments that scientists have missed are creationists. From the cited research: "if carbon dioxide reaches double pre-industrial levels, coral reefs can be expected to not just stop growing, but also to begin dissolving all over the world"I must admit that I did not appreciate that the solubility of calcium carbonate in lower alkalinity sea water was higher several thousand years ago than now. You _can_ cite research showing that the solubility 'constant' of CaCO 3 has changed since the limestone deposits were laid down in higher atmospheric CO 2 than now? |
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Post by crakar24 on Mar 11, 2009 1:53:13 GMT
Here is a link that has a lot of GW stories, my favourite one is that GW caused the black hawk to crash in somalia. www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htmHave fun reading the stories Cheers |
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Post by julianb on Mar 11, 2009 8:08:09 GMT
This very good source of CO2 and its effects on coral, plant life and the atmosphere www.co2science.org/education/reports/corals/p2ch1.php does a pretty good job of debunking the simplistic papers that warn of dissolving corals. These alarmist papers do most of their work with acid, coral and seawater in the lab. ] In contrast, this and other papers that can be accessed from home page, subject list, coral, at CO2science use long term real life in situ studies with enhanced temperature and CO2, which also show enhanced growth ! ;D |
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Post by tobyglyn on Mar 11, 2009 12:26:52 GMT
Apparently not enough people were concerned about coral so now it's a mass extinction of sea life. "Carbon dioxide emissions from human activities are acidifying the oceans and threaten a mass extinction of sea life, a top ocean scientist warns. Dr Carol Turley from Plymouth Marine Laboratory says it is impossible to know how marine life will cope, but she fears many species will not survive. " and: "It is more acidic now than it has been for at least 500,000 years, they add. The problem is set to worsen as emissions of the greenhouse gas increase through the 21st Century. "I am very worried for ocean ecosystems which are currently productive and diverse," Carol Turely told BBC News. "I believe we may be heading for a mass extinction, as the rate of change in the oceans hasn't been seen since the dinosaurs. "It may have a major impact on food security. It really is imperative that we cut emissions of CO2." news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7936137.stm |
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Post by FurryCatHerder on Mar 11, 2009 13:41:04 GMT
And, of course, the most significant cause of dwindling marine life -- too many yuppies and their loin-fruit discovering sushi bars, as well as certain countries failing to grasp that the oceans are NOT their pantry -- is roundly ignored.
Fishing grounds are mostly collapsing due to over-fishing. Blaming it on CO2 is seriously misguided because it takes away from the actual cause of harm to marine ecosystems -- excessive fishing, pollution, shipping, marine tourists (wannabe SCUBA divers with no respect for reefs or marine life), dumping, stupid projects (Florida, I believe, thought used car tires could create reefs and since had to remove all the tires they'd dumped because they were DESTROYING reefs), and so on.
As with the DDT scare (read "Trashing the Planet"), environmentalists are missing the real cause of marine destruction and blaming their pet cause -- CO2 -- and ignoring the actual causes.
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Post by hiddigeigei on Mar 12, 2009 2:23:34 GMT
Right now I'm considering writing an article discussing how increasing atmospheric CO2 is diminishing sunspots and submitting it to the Journal of Irreproducible Results.
As for corals: seawater is pretty good at buffering. Actually, I would like to see an honest, carefully-designed microcosm study on the effect of increasing atmospheric CO2 on different coral species and their zooxanthella.
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Post by magellan on Mar 12, 2009 3:07:49 GMT
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Post by ebrainsh on Mar 12, 2009 4:14:17 GMT
magellan, I sent Dan your links. In the meantime I will search ScienceDaily to see if any have been cited.
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Post by ebrainsh on Mar 12, 2009 4:47:04 GMT
Dan has cited Dr. Klaus Keller numerous times. Below are just a few of them. Climate Threshold May Alter Economic Picture Of Climate Change
ScienceDaily (Mar. 3, 2005) — Typical economic analysis applied to global warming may be biased because they neglect climate thresholds, according to Penn State researchers. "Economic models of climate change typically assume that changes occur gradually and reversibly," says Dr. Klaus Keller, assistant professor of geoscience, Penn State. "However, some environmental effects are not smooth and show a threshold response. For a long time nothing or very little happens and then suddenly a large change occurs." www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/02/050223144840.htmHas An Ocean Circulation Collapse Been Triggered?
ScienceDaily (Feb. 25, 2008) — Predictions that the 21st century is safe from major circulation changes in the North Atlantic Ocean may not be as comforting as they seem, according to a Penn State researcher. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080217102148.htmOverconfidence Leads To Bias In Climate Change Estimations
ScienceDaily (Dec. 15, 2006) — Just as overconfidence in a teenager may lead to unwise acts, overconfidence in projections of climate change may lead to inappropriate actions on the parts of governments, industries and individuals, according to an international team of climate researchers. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061215122457.htm |
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Post by kiwistonewall on Mar 12, 2009 19:25:53 GMT
CO2 causes arthritis & wrinklesWell, it has for me - 50 years ago, when CO2 was much lower, I had neither. But as CO2 has increased, so have the wrinkles & arthritis. That's all the proof I need! 
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