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Post by nonentropic on Feb 17, 2021 17:27:58 GMT
The price variability should if allowed, stimulate for the future quick start generation.
As my 2nd year Macro Eco prof said "all monopolies are a result of regulator failures".
Does anyone think this is caused by say "God". Not the weather, the preparedness or vulnerability.
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Post by nautonnier on Feb 17, 2021 17:29:20 GMT
Market forces are all fine and well. But aren't there rules / laws regarding price gouging by "public utilities" (and their suppliers) during a public emergency? More to the point, if you are a public utility providing an 'essential service' then the service must not be interrupted just because there is a contractual issue or pricing issue. Suck it up - you may get a few days of negative profits.
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Post by walnut on Feb 17, 2021 17:57:51 GMT
Market forces are all fine and well. But aren't there rules / laws regarding price gouging by "public utilities" (and their suppliers) during a public emergency? More to the point, if you are a public utility providing an 'essential service' then the service must not be interrupted just because there is a contractual issue or pricing issue. Suck it up - you may get a few days of negative profits. The state should slam them. Make them want to sell their license.
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Post by missouriboy on Feb 17, 2021 18:00:11 GMT
Wake up Call for Florida Perhaps the De Santis administration has a plan for what they'd do if they faced a situation like Texas is facing. History shows that the same thing HAS happened in Florida. It's been a while, but it will likely do so again. Look at the dates in this article ... the 1970s are very prominent. climatecenter.fsu.edu/topics/winters OR www.orlandosentinel.com/weather/os-ne-snow-42-years-ago-central-florida-20190119-story.htmlSIGNIFICANT FLORIDA IMPACT FREEZES Freeze Event Tallahassee Avon Park Fort Myers December 1894 15°F 24°F 28°F February 1899 -2°F N/A N/A December 1934 20°F 21°F 29°F January 1940 15°F 26°F 29°F December 1962 20°F 24°F 28°F January 1977 16°F 21°F 30°F January 1981 8°F 18°F 28°F January 1982 14°F 19°F 29°F December 1983 14°F 23°F 33°F January 1985 6°F 21°F 30°F December 1989 13°F 20°F 27°F January 1997 18°F 24°F N/A
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Post by missouriboy on Feb 17, 2021 18:10:52 GMT
More to the point, if you are a public utility providing an 'essential service' then the service must not be interrupted just because there is a contractual issue or pricing issue. Suck it up - you may get a few days of negative profits. The state should slam them. Make them want to sell their license. The "price" of their actions should be way beyond a simple "cost of doing business shrug". It should ellicit the vision of a Robespierre moment.
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Post by nautonnier on Feb 17, 2021 20:06:23 GMT
From the site Stormhaven.blog linked to by the tweet.... "Free your mind and your ass will follow" worth a read for those that want ammunition against the alarmists...
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Post by missouriboy on Feb 17, 2021 20:38:01 GMT
I foresee a teeshirt. Free your mind and your ass will follow
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Post by missouriboy on Feb 17, 2021 21:09:31 GMT
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Post by douglavers on Feb 18, 2021 0:25:39 GMT
15 million Texans now suffering the benefits of solar and wind power.
Solar panels - covered in snow
Uninsulated houses, at temperatures between -5 and -15 degC, with no power for several days. Plumbers are going to enjoy land office trade when the thaw arrives.
Wind Turbines - deep frozen in ice. I believe that large turbines have to be kept turning slowly to prevent bearing deformation.
Suspect there will be a large number of monuments to stupidity.
Is it possible that a few Democrat Senators will be starting to wonder about their Green Energy stance?
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Post by glennkoks on Feb 18, 2021 0:51:48 GMT
Market forces are all fine and well. But aren't there rules / laws regarding price gouging by "public utilities" (and their suppliers) during a public emergency? You would think so. Problem is Texas de-regulated the power industry years ago. So it is complex, but long story short there are a large percentage of companies that did not buy enough bulk contracts in advance to cover the spike from this arctic blast. The wholesale price skyrocketed and very similar to the hedge funds that were caught in the short squeeze on GameStop stock they are faced with buying 9.00 a KWH electricity to cover their customers that they were charging about .12 a KWH. Many now face insolvency and the producers fully realize they are not going to get paid and this ends up in bankruptcy court. Hence all of the sudden the grid crashes and inability to deliver. It is a train wreck and people want heads but the producers have costs as well. They can't generate the electricity and not get paid for it. In my opinion de-regulation is a good thing. However letting every Tom, Richard and Harry become an electrical company and start buying and selling electricity on the open market is clearly playing with fire. Now as these companies face insolvency customers are forced to find new providers and many of the new providers are not taking any new customers in fear of running out of their blocks of electricity. Politicians are getting involved and the entire thing is a cluster puck. Unfortunately there have been multiple deaths, problems with water companies, inability to put out fires, gas and food shortages. It's worse than all but the worst of Hurricanes I have experienced.
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Post by sigurdur on Feb 18, 2021 2:41:18 GMT
Complex issue which will be resolved. The main thing that proceeded this was the rush for wind subsidies. I will send you a few pictures that really outline the outcome.
Money invested in wind should have been invested in more pipelines and coal plants. Coal plants are reliable.
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Post by walnut on Feb 18, 2021 2:42:29 GMT
We hit a low low, a few degrees lower than normal, but it was otherwise a regular Oklahoma winter storm. Still not noteworthy, aside from 4 or 5 degrees lower than a normal major winter storm. Gets you thinking after the fact about the antifreeze in various engines you had not checked in a few years.
Oklahoma dealt with it pretty well. We had a lot of water line breaks because we have had several warm winters recently. But the cold and the heavy snow pushed so far south this time.
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Post by missouriboy on Feb 18, 2021 3:59:44 GMT
Market forces are all fine and well. But aren't there rules / laws regarding price gouging by "public utilities" (and their suppliers) during a public emergency? You would think so. Problem is Texas de-regulated the power industry years ago. So it is complex, but long story short there are a large percentage of companies that did not buy enough bulk contracts in advance to cover the spike from this arctic blast. The wholesale price skyrocketed and very similar to the hedge funds that were caught in the short squeeze on GameStop stock they are faced with buying 9.00 a KWH electricity to cover their customers that they were charging about .12 a KWH. Many now face insolvency and the producers fully realize they are not going to get paid and this ends up in bankruptcy court. Hence all of the sudden the grid crashes and inability to deliver. It is a train wreck and people want heads but the producers have costs as well. They can't generate the electricity and not get paid for it. In my opinion de-regulation is a good thing. However letting every Tom, Richard and Harry become an electrical company and start buying and selling electricity on the open market is clearly playing with fire. Now as these companies face insolvency customers are forced to find new providers and many of the new providers are not taking any new customers in fear of running out of their blocks of electricity. Politicians are getting involved and the entire thing is a cluster puck. Unfortunately there have been multiple deaths, problems with water companies, inability to put out fires, gas and food shortages. It's worse than all but the worst of Hurricanes I have experienced. I pay $0.10 / KWH and about $0.15 / unit of natural gas here and Missouri's public utilities are regulated. Granted, our situations are different. Nobody in their right mind would heat their house with electricity because the winters are dependably coolish ... and they would go broke. Thus, no dramtic surge in electical demand when heating is natural gas. Our lights didn't even blink. I'm all for keeping government out of everything possible, but one has to wonder when the system can't handle a slightly worse than normal Missouri winter without breaking. Me thinks that Texas has been living on minimal heating requirements in its housing permits for a long time and the piper has knocked on the door. And with all your natural gas ... I know, you only need it every 10 years, but that interval may be going down.
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Post by glennkoks on Feb 18, 2021 11:42:27 GMT
Complex issue which will be resolved. The main thing that proceeded this was the rush for wind subsidies. I will send you a few pictures that really outline the outcome. Money invested in wind should have been invested in more pipelines and coal plants. Coal plants are reliable. It is complex and as with most things there is no one single cause but a perfect storm. Depending on what source you search Texas generates 17 to 24 percent of it's power from wind. Which would probably have been much better spent developing clean, local natural gas plants. Even more so if you take into consideration the tax subsidies offered to wind farms. I don't have a problem with the de-regulation of the power industry in Texas. I am a free market capitalist but like the run on the banks during The Great Depression perhaps it would have been wise to require minimum reserves to keep this from happening? Now there will be thousands of Texans without a retail electrical provider thrown out on the open market desperate to try and find a provider with a fixed rate to take them on. It's hard for me to be too angry with the producers either. Who want's to sell a product to someone you fully realize is going to go bankrupt and not pay you? Thats a formula to spread mass contagion and bring the entire system down. And as we face the next arctic blast 2 million Texans are still without power.
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Post by gridley on Feb 18, 2021 12:47:53 GMT
Complex issue which will be resolved. The main thing that proceeded this was the rush for wind subsidies. I will send you a few pictures that really outline the outcome. Money invested in wind should have been invested in more pipelines and coal plants. Coal plants are reliable. Nuclear would be even better. And as a general note to the various "isn't there/there should be a law against that..." posts on Texas power prices, I'll remind you that there are all kinds of laws against election fraud. Yet here we are. To quote one of the best things I've ever heard a lawyer say: "The presence of the law does not prevent illegality." The law alone has NEVER been enough to protect anyone - it must also be *enforced*. We became complacent about enforcement, and allowed numerous unconstitutional laws to stand unchallenged to boot. Now we're paying the price. We can't look to laws to fix problems any more - nor are we likely to get any favorable laws from the Federal level. If we can save this country without a major civil war then we need to fix enforcement first, and then bring the law back under control.
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