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Post by skypilot on Nov 29, 2010 15:26:08 GMT
Dr Leif,
After reading your report titled, Solar Radio Microwave Flux, I come to wonder if there is any way to determine if this has been a recurring event through the life of our Sun.
Thanks, Skypilot
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Post by af4ex on Nov 29, 2010 16:29:50 GMT
Dr. Svalgaard, The Xray background seems to be ramping up (green line). Is this due to contributions from individual regions (e.g. AF1129, AR1130), or is it true 'background radiation', distributed over the solar disk? Or both? Former regions 1121,1123,1124 and 1125 are nearing the east limb on the farside and their corona glow can already be seen. Would they have any Xray contribution? I would assume 'yes', because they appear as bright objects in the Xray imagery. Attachments:
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Post by lsvalgaard on Nov 29, 2010 17:15:24 GMT
Dr Leif, After reading your report titled, Solar Radio Microwave Flux, I come to wonder if there is any way to determine if this has been a recurring event through the life of our Sun. Thanks, Skypilot The Maunder minimum may be an indication that this has happened before, but we don't really know. Perhaps this time we'll learn enough to answer that question. |
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Post by lsvalgaard on Nov 29, 2010 17:18:28 GMT
Dr. Svalgaard, The Xray background seems to be ramping up (green line). Is this due to contributions from individual regions (e.g. AF1129, AR1130), or is it true 'background radiation', distributed over the solar disk? Or both? Former regions 1121,1123,1124 and 1125 are nearing the east limb on the farside and their corona glow can already be seen. Would they have any Xray contribution? I would assume 'yes', because they appear as bright objects in the Xray imagery. The X-ray emission is integrated over the disk and I will assume it is a mixture of both background and active regions. The slow 'dip' is a bit strange though. I don't remember seeing this behavior before, but one could look back through the last couple of years of data to check. A worthwhile project? |
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Post by af4ex on Nov 29, 2010 17:53:49 GMT
@leif > The slow 'dip' is a bit strange though. I don't remember > seeing this behavior before, but one could look > back through the last couple of years of data to check. > A worthwhile project? Is the 'dip' the area circled in green? If you can point me to an archive of weekly summary x-ray plots and/or data spanning a few years, I'll try to find a similar pattern. The swpc archive seems to cover only the last 90 days. www.swpc.noaa.gov/ftpmenu/lists/xray.htmlAttachments:
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Post by af4ex on Nov 29, 2010 18:07:23 GMT
... be advised that I fitted that line by eyeball. So I could place the line such that we get a 'slow rise'. I guess a least-squares fit should be performed to maintain some rigor (or smooth the signal a bit and tally a moving average of slope & curvature). :-| Attachments:
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Post by lsvalgaard on Nov 29, 2010 20:16:55 GMT
@leif > The slow 'dip' is a bit strange though. I don't remember > seeing this behavior before, but one could look > back through the last couple of years of data to check. > A worthwhile project? Is the 'dip' the area circled in green? If you can point me to an archive of weekly summary x-ray plots and/or data spanning a few years, I'll try to find a similar pattern. The swpc archive seems to cover only the last 90 days. www.swpc.noaa.gov/ftpmenu/lists/xray.html |
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Post by af4ex on Nov 29, 2010 23:07:07 GMT
Looking for 'slow dips', starting with 2010 data. I found this one back in May, which has several dips. Doesn't seem to be the 'norm' (if such exists). You're right, the sun is a 'messy' place! Attachments:
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Post by lsvalgaard on Nov 30, 2010 16:32:43 GMT
Dr. Svalgaard Stratosphere Are these peaks due to CMEs (magnetic rope) hitting stratosphere or something else? The dramatic temperature changes in the stratosphere are generally caused by upwards travelling planetary waves. CMEs don't have any such effect. Here are the solar activity for January 2009 [the first red peak] : hirweb.nict.go.jp/sedoss/solact3/do?d=2009,1,1 and for the second: hirweb.nict.go.jp/sedoss/solact3/do?d=2010,1,1 not much going on. |
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Post by hunterson on Dec 1, 2010 18:54:27 GMT
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Post by lsvalgaard on Dec 1, 2010 19:44:12 GMT
Yes, that is a good analysis. I also had it on my website a while ago. |
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Post by annav on Dec 2, 2010 5:22:44 GMT
Yes, that is a good analysis. I also had it on my website a while ago. I am going through the paper, and it seems comprehensive enough. It set me thinking about albedo and cloud making properties. I wonder, are you aware of any studies looking into radio waves and cloud formation? In addition to CO2 excesses from our expanding human civilizations, there is also an inundation of radio frequency waves growing in parallel. If something like that exists then the argument in the paper, page 25 : Hence while century-scale data show global or
hemispheric mean surface air temperatures that are correlated with solar indices, e.g. using
solar cycle length as a proxy for irradiance (Thejll and Lassen, 2000), this simple correlation
is no guarantee of a causal relationship. In fact, a comparison of solar cycle length over the
past several centuries shows that if the apparent relationship between solar variability and
mean surface air temperature in 20th century data were indeed real, then solar variations
should have driven much larger global or hemispheric temperature variations in the longer term
past than are seen in proxy reconstructions becomes diluted as far as CO2 induced anthropogeny. How about this? www.liveleak.com/view?i=086_1254935636discussed in this blog: 2012forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=14415Of course this is pure speculation saying something like this could come from radio waves, but radio waves, like inflation, have been going up at the same trend as CO2 and probably strongly correlated with the latter since they are energy intensive. So changes in albedo in the 2oth century might include such an effect. The way I would look for an effect is from some type of induced coherence. The long wavelengths of radio waves might interact with collective H2O facilitating the condensation process once it starts. Just playing. |
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Post by lsvalgaard on Dec 2, 2010 6:42:16 GMT
Yes, that is a good analysis. I also had it on my website a while ago. I am going through the paper, and it seems comprehensive enough. It set me thinking about albedo and cloud making properties. I wonder, are you aware of any studies looking into radio waves and cloud formation? In addition to CO2 excesses from our expanding human civilizations, there is also an inundation of radio frequency waves growing in parallel. If something like that exists then the argument in the paper, page 25 : Hence while century-scale data show global or
hemispheric mean surface air temperatures that are correlated with solar indices, e.g. using
solar cycle length as a proxy for irradiance (Thejll and Lassen, 2000), this simple correlation
is no guarantee of a causal relationship. In fact, a comparison of solar cycle length over the
past several centuries shows that if the apparent relationship between solar variability and
mean surface air temperature in 20th century data were indeed real, then solar variations
should have driven much larger global or hemispheric temperature variations in the longer term
past than are seen in proxy reconstructions becomes diluted as far as CO2 induced anthropogeny. How about this? www.liveleak.com/view?i=086_1254935636discussed in this blog: 2012forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=14415Of course this is pure speculation saying something like this could come from radio waves, but radio waves, like inflation, have been going up at the same trend as CO2 and probably strongly correlated with the latter since they are energy intensive. So changes in albedo in the 2oth century might include such an effect. The way I would look for an effect is from some type of induced coherence. The long wavelengths of radio waves might interact with collective H2O facilitating the condensation process once it starts. Just playing. The energy in radio waves is extremely small ["the total energy in all radio waves collected by all radio telescopes since their invention is less than that of a single snowflake falling to the ground"] so I don't see much grounds for an effect. |
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Post by sunnydave on Dec 15, 2010 20:56:46 GMT
Annav, and not to usurp Dr. Svalgaards thread. But go here and check out the CO2 levels for the past 600,000 years. www.realclimate.org/epica.jpgen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Vostok#Ice_coreUnless there have been other technologically advanced human societies that have produced CO2 gasses and propagated radio waves into the atmosphere. I don't think we humans have anything to do with CO2 levels.
Oh, there are plenty of other sites that have the Lake Vostok CO2 levels going back at least 420,000 years. The ice core samples, over 2 miles long, showing CO2 spiking without Humans.Sunny Dave |
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Post by Bob k6tr on Dec 15, 2010 22:21:17 GMT
SD please address your comments after the links in the form of a PM to AnnaV. Further discussion of AGW Topics in this thread will be deleted. Annav, and not to usurp Dr. Svalgaards thread. But go here and check out the CO2 levels for the past 600,000 years. www.realclimate.org/epica.jpgen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Vostok#Ice_coreUnless there have been other technologically advanced human societies that have produced CO2 gasses and propagated radio waves into the atmosphere. I don't think we humans have anything to do with CO2 levels.
Oh, there are plenty of other sites that have the Lake Vostok CO2 levels going back at least 420,000 years. The ice core samples, over 2 miles long, showing CO2 spiking without Humans.Sunny Dave |
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