rmms
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by rmms on Apr 21, 2009 12:17:57 GMT
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Post by questioneverything on Apr 22, 2009 22:20:28 GMT
There were several topics related to this in the Global Warming Thread. Please go check those out.
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Post by bender on Apr 23, 2009 1:14:05 GMT
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Post by rbateman on Apr 23, 2009 5:30:15 GMT
The Great Depression had it's Dust Bowl. The Lesser Depression now has it's Deep Solar Minimum of unknown duration and depth.
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Post by rbateman on Apr 23, 2009 5:34:50 GMT
But, as this topic is correlation between solar and volcanoes, there is some higher volcanic activity during minimums. Seems to be more of them and bigger ones, though they can occur at any time. Rock loses elasticity as it cools. I believe that alone would do it for the crust becoming more brittle, and helping along a volcano that is ready to pop. You still need a volcano with magma happening. And who knows what else happens to the crust during Minimum.
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rickj
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by rickj on Apr 23, 2009 7:32:12 GMT
One thing is for sure and that is that in previous great minima, we have seen enormous volcanic eruptions, such as that of Tambora during solar minimums, and Krakatoa. Looking at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deadliest_natural_disastersand the volcanoes and earthquakes section (yes, cherry picking the biggest, I know) Which ones here were at solar minimum? It's an interesting thought. For the volcanoes, I can go back as far as 1710 with sunspot data . Tambora, Krakatau, Nevado del ruiz, Katmai ,Santamria, all seem to be at solar minimums. I wondered about the link between the earth's magnetic field and increases in vulcanism and techntonics /earthquakes. At the moment the earth's magnetic field is changing rather rapidly and I wondered if it was induced by the solar magnetic field which is also changing and low. I've been wondering for a while if the hot spots which are found around the Earth's crust are weak points in the earth's magnetic fields(or indeed strong points?) Perhaps I'll call them anomolies for now. The earth's magnetic field is changing rapidly and if it's also induced by the sun's magnetic field , which is also in a weak period, perhaps we will see an apparent increase in volcanic activity or the awakening of long dormant volcanic fields, such as the Garrotxa volcanic field in Spain or the Chaine de Puys in France? We'll have to wait and see. What seems amazing this year is the volcanic and seismic activity, in Italy, Tonga, Chile, Alaska, the Carribean, Haiwaii to name but some areas. Almost all catastrophic volcanic eruptions have been caused by long dormant volcanoes, either considered extinct or not dangerous. So watch the dormant volcanoes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dormant_volcanoes) You could take data from the USGS site for volcanoes and earthquakes and do a statistical analysis to see if they increase or decrease in solar minimums. That could be interesting.
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Post by Maui on Apr 26, 2009 17:20:20 GMT
I have researched this for over 25 years, since a meteorology professor at Cornell put the bug in my ear... But the most important factor in statistical proof (good data over time and space) is lacking. We have limited history of volcanoes above water, and almost no history of the majority of Earth's volcanoes below sea level. Another example: the world's most dangerous volcano, Tambora, caused 1816 to tbe "the year with no summer." But USGS can only say that Tambora's last eruption was in "1987, plus or minus 20 years," due to local political unrest and lack of data.
I think there are solar correlations with beginning of eruptions at Kilauea, Haleakala, and many climate-changing events. But Mauna Loa did not easily correspond to the solar cycle...
I also am skeptical of mathematical proof because I have seen Fourier analysis draw incorrect conclusions; for example, regarding the location of volcanoes on Io, based on Voyager data. Galileo found that at least one "volcano" was just the end of a lava flow... "I guess you can force-fit any figures that you may have and come up with some kind of correlation with anything" is my sentiments exactly.
I suggest the best way to show solar induction is by comparison with other systems. But here we are on the edge of exploration: only recently are we deciphering the mysteries of Enceladus's ice plumes (which are not behaving as expected). And now there's volcanoes on Mercury and Titan to explore...
Unless you subscribe to NATURE journal, you might not know that the whole world of geophysics just got turned upside down. Most calculations of the Earth's heat budget need to be changed.
University of Missouri in Columbia and Washington University in St. Louis scientists have been able to measure heat flow in samples of crust material subjected to high temperatures. They have found that the Earth's lower crust must act as an insulator, increasing the crust's potential to generate molten magma.*
What does this mean for my idea that the Sun influences nuclear fusion in the Earth's crust, and that induced fusion affects volcanism? I have been told by University of Hawaii Geology Chairman Prof. John Sinton that "fusion is not necessary to explain volcanoes." But how can he say I am wrong if he is wrong also? A hotter crust would be more likely to generate nuclear fusion.
---------- *See Whittington and Hofmeister, Nature 458, pp. 319-321; 19 March 2009; also Jean Braun (Universite de Rennes) lin the same issue pp. 292-293.
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Post by Maui on Apr 27, 2009 17:33:42 GMT
I want to be sure to get all my information onto these fora before I get a job. Any day now, I will be way too busy for this. I hope...
Krakatau occurred at the peak of a low-count sunspot cycle that had other major eruptions at the preceding and following minimum. Just before the eruption began, the famous solar scientist Maunder described seeing giant sunspots and a large disturbance of "magnetic needles." For this reason, I suggest that if we see high levels of volcanic activity leading up to a low-count sunspot max, then there is likely to be a major eruption around max also (especially if we have giant sunspots).
Mount Saint Helens (1980), El Chichon (1982) and Pinatubo (1991) all exploded nearer the peak of the solar cycle in my interpretation. But what is the cutoff for "nearer the peak" or "nearer the minimum?"
One future area of investigation might be taking a look at USGS inflation / deflation data for Kilauea (since this is one of the world's best-observed volcanoes) and seeing how it relates to short-term solar fluctuations. But I suspect that the reason Kilauea (4,000 ft high) shows some long-term solar correlation while Mauna Loa (13,680 ft high) does not is that the summit is simply farther from the mantle; thus, a short-term influence at Kilauea is probably not apparent. Undersea volcanoes would have the closest connection to the mantle and thus might show short-term solar influences; but there are no historical data.
I also wanted to mention my theory that atmospheric pollution from volcanoes might influence solar energy transfer. Again, I see an inductive evidence by looking at a similar situation elsewhere: the interaction of Io and Jupiter via the Io torus.
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N9AAT
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DON'T PANIC
Posts: 153
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Post by N9AAT on May 2, 2009 17:12:14 GMT
I am wondering how atmospheric pressure affects volcano activity. Has anyone ever done a study on changes to worldwide average barometric pressure? I'm sure we've all read about that latest Air Force launch concluding that the top of the atmosphere is lower today than expected. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7794834.stmAre we saying that the weight of a column of air has dropped? 20-meters will never be the same N9LLX
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Post by Maui on May 3, 2009 15:49:31 GMT
I studied maps of wind flow and Hawaiian geology, and thought there was a relationship between tradewind maxima and the proximate location of the Hawaiian hot spot. Here on Orcas Island, I wonder how weather patterns affected glaciers, which in turn control our present landscape. And there is a study that shows while volcanism affects climate, in the historic ice record glaciation often increases before there is an increase in atmospheric volcanic gas, suggesting that the weight of the glaciers increases eruptions.
YES, IT'S ALL CONNECTED. Causes and effects intertwine and feed back. There are cycles as well as unexpected large events (analogous to a rogue ocean wave). Quantum tunneling, which explains nuclear fusion on our relatively cool star, also makes it so on Earth. Volcanoes are analogous to and influenced by the Sun.
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Post by Ulric Lyons on May 13, 2009 10:21:11 GMT
Most large eruptions www.volcano.si.edu/world/largeeruptions.cfm seem to be responding to a temperature differential, namely a cold period followed by a sharp uplift in weekly/monthly temperature. I use CET as an indicator of global temperature changes, from 1979 onwards this can be checked against sat. temp. measurements: vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/uahncdc.lt If the eruption date is at the end of a month, the temp. rise may not be apparent in the monthly data till the following month, so care is needed in checking the correlation. The most recent eruptions are following this pattern well. I would predict that this August will provide a sufficient rise in temp. to trigger some new activity.
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Post by Maui on May 17, 2009 16:25:50 GMT
Ulric--
I have been pondering your post for days! Although I am a genius (IQ over 200), I have a "slow twitch" brain; I am also a long-distance runner. I completed four "Runs to the Sun," 36.2 miles from sea level to 10,023 ft. summit of Mt. Haleakala; there's a pic of me in the "open forum volcano pictures" at the Volcano Wilderness Marathon (finished twice) and the bald guy to lower right is my Dad. He was a librarian and high-school teacher; gave me the IQ test when I was 9, then a while later challenged me to find the key to nuclear fusion. "But would it be a good idea to have unlimited, cheap electricity?" he queried...
We'll see in August if your prediction is correct...
The erosional influence of the sun-atmosphere system on volcanoes is obvious. I think a recently discovered channel of molten rock under my region may have had a cyclic influence on hydrothermal alteration, affecting the rate of glacial erosion and causing the north-south trend of local hills and islands here in Western Washington...?
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Post by Ulric Lyons on May 18, 2009 0:10:47 GMT
Hi Maui, my Dad is very bald too! He used to be head of Guided Weapons here in the UK, I`m his last chance of one of his seven offspring becoming a boffin like him! I`m certain of the temperature uplift in August, May and June next year will be another hot feature too, though hind casting well for decades or centuries is probably a better proof than a year or two of forecasting. Thanks for the reply.
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Post by Maui on May 18, 2009 21:05:50 GMT
Well, maybe the Brits are interested in my fusion induction ideas? I also have ideas about water induction propulsion which our Navy has ignored...
phillip.bose@gmail.com
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Post by sizzler on May 23, 2009 21:39:51 GMT
Re Maui and RickJ,
I replied to Maui's letter on the Minimums and Volcanism page of the Global Warming discussion board. I have read the book 'Magnetic Reversals and Evolutionary Leaps' by Robert Felix, and the book mentions various increases in volcanic activity coinciding with periods in the Earth's history when the magnetic field has declined, possibly due to changes in the flow of the Earth's outer core, which generated the magnetic field and heats the earth's mantle.
Sam
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