Hudson Bay Company logs

[woodstove]

I have read here and elsewhere of logs kept by Hudson Bay Company trading posts in the Canadian Archipelago during the 1930s and 1940s that included information about sea ice.

Does anyone have links or excerpts of these to share?

HBC ships also kept logs, going way back, that included information on sea ice, though I cannot seem to locate these logs either. Many thanks in advance for any help.

[aj1983]

I'm sorry I do not have information on Hudson logs. I do have some information over the early 1940s, in which huge parts of the North Sea (!) froze over and we experienced several of the coldest winters since 1706.

[woodstove]

Feel free to give links for that info, too, AJ (or type it out with sources if you prefer). I see that there was a war- and weather-related famine in the Netherlands in 1944, with 18,000 dying of hunger.

[stranger]

One of my professors said Hudson's Bay Company had observational records back to the 1690's. Where they may be, and access is another matter. But the Company is currently domiciled in Canada and it would probably not hurt to ask.

Stranger

[tobyglyn]

Why would you want access to such old and useless records. Any observations made then are obviously inferior to our sophisticated hind and forecasting models.....

[woodstove]

Feb 5, 2010 3:03:01 GMT tobyglyn said:

Why would you want access to such old and useless records. Any observations made then are obviously inferior to our sophisticated hind and forecasting models.....

lol

[scpg02]

Feb 5, 2010 3:03:01 GMT tobyglyn said:

Why would you want access to such old and useless records. Any observations made then are obviously inferior to our sophisticated hind and forecasting models.....

[flyingmonkey]

Feb 4, 2010 22:41:20 GMT woodstove said:

I have read here and elsewhere of logs kept by Hudson Bay Company trading posts in the Canadian Archipelago during the 1930s and 1940s that included information about sea ice.

Does anyone have links or excerpts of these to share?

HBC ships also kept logs, going way back, that included information on sea ice, though I cannot seem to locate these logs either. Many thanks in advance for any help.

I can see why the Hudsons Bay posts records are valuable:

www.polarbearalley.com/hudson-bay-post-climate-change.html
"...They are part of the longest and most comprehensive set of weather observations in North America, if not the world..."


I haven't searched this online archive to test its value to climate history information:

www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/search.html
"Search the Keystone Archives Descriptive Database online guide to the archival holdings of all media of the Archives of Manitoba, including the Hudson's Bay Company Archives. The database is being added to continually, but does not yet contain descriptions of all Archives of Manitoba holdings."

=====

From the October 2008 Canadian Climate History Workshop seminar

"Reading the Climate in Hudson's Bay Company Records.

George Colpitts, U
niche-canada.org/node/1933

first 23 minutes of 34 minute lecture describes the value/limits of the Hudson Bay records ( I only watched the first 23 minutes )

Other lectures ( Canadian Climate history ) from the October seminar below Colpitts lecture ......

Logbooks and Other Documentary Sources to Reconstruct Climate Variability in the Last 500 Years.
niche-canada.org/node/1927
( haven't watched it yet )

===

Ships logbooks-from
www.knmi.nl/cliwoc/download/cliwoc21.htm
from the Climatological Database for the World's Oceans 1750-1850
easy.dans.knaw.nl/dms?command=AIP_info&aipId=twips.dans.knaw.nl--6538924871987999792-1200553938941&windowStyle=default&windowContext=default

so it's not the Hudson Bay and Ice specific information that you're looking for, I don't think.

It sounds like all of the Hudsons bay company data is not on line....


For 1940's era ice conditions, It might be useful to try to find the logs of the RCMP wooden ship, the St Roch-the first ship to transit the NW passage from the East, ( the first ship to travel the NW passage both directions )

www.hnsa.org/ships/stroch.htm
" ....Between 1940 and 1942 St. Roch navigated the Northwest Passage, arriving in Halifax harbor on October 11, 1942. St. Roch was the second ship to make the passage, and the first to travel the passage from west to east. In 1944, St. Roch returned to Vancouver via the more northerly route of the Northwest Passage, making her run in 86 days...."


( she was actually dispatched in '42 to obstruct the nazis from sourcing minerals in Greenland , although it turned out to be unnecessary )

I admit to getting further side-tracked by reading how the Hudsons bay area polar bears are not necessarily being bothered by carbon molecules....

www.cfa.harvard.edu/~wsoon/myownPapers-d/DyckSoonetal07-PBpaper.pdf

Sorry for the sidetrack...(: if I can find any more specific logs or Hudson Bay data I will post it.....

[steve]

Googling brought up this book published in 1992, and previewable on google books. It includes at least one chapter on Hudson Bay Company records.

Climate since A.D. 1500

Climate Since AD 1500presents a new perspective on the "Little Ice Age" and on the climate of the twentieth century. The editors have gathered together over fifty contributors from all over the world to provide as wide a geographical dimension as possible. Leading scientists in their fields, they present climatic and meteorological records of climatic variations available for the last 500 years, including research from several areas not previously recorded in English. These records include historical documents, long instrumental records, tree rings and ice core records, and records based on worldwide current research. An introductory chapter provides an explanation of the methods throughout and the book concludes with a summary of data from all the various records.

The collection was prepared by two guys called Raymond S. Bradley, Philip D. Jones. I'm sure I've heard their names before

[hairball]

Duh, reading. Think about it guys. They're logs.

[woodstove]

Feb 5, 2010 9:53:55 GMT steve said:

Googling brought up this book published in 1992, and previewable on google books. It includes at least one chapter on Hudson Bay Company records.

Climate since A.D. 1500

Climate Since AD 1500presents a new perspective on the "Little Ice Age" and on the climate of the twentieth century. The editors have gathered together over fifty contributors from all over the world to provide as wide a geographical dimension as possible. Leading scientists in their fields, they present climatic and meteorological records of climatic variations available for the last 500 years, including research from several areas not previously recorded in English. These records include historical documents, long instrumental records, tree rings and ice core records, and records based on worldwide current research. An introductory chapter provides an explanation of the methods throughout and the book concludes with a summary of data from all the various records.

I had tumbled across this book previously but am very grateful to be reminded of its existence at a very propitious time. Thank you.

[woodstove]

I have begun to sift through your links, flyingmonkey. A million thanks to you.

[icefisher]

Feb 5, 2010 12:29:30 GMT hairball said:

Duh, reading. Think about it guys. They're logs.

Soon to be employed selling injection-molded imitation burl wood trinkets to tourists in some remote roadside stand.