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Post by justsomeguy on Dec 3, 2011 14:22:32 GMT
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Post by justsomeguy on Dec 3, 2011 14:30:46 GMT
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Post by trbixler on Dec 3, 2011 17:17:34 GMT
model vs real delivered operating costs beyond "priceless"
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Post by hairball on Dec 3, 2011 17:22:51 GMT
There's a lot of windmills sprouting up here in Ireland. The salesmen said they'd get 35% efficiency. It's closer to 20%.
The operators say they provide 12% of Ireland's electricity. But it averages out to 3%.
We're skid-row broke and we're investing another €12 billion+ in windmills and their transmission lines. The civil servants in charges of the electricity supply are extremely well paid.
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Post by hrizzo on Dec 3, 2011 19:14:57 GMT
Give me a break, justsomeguy
If you have coal generation, you only need coal generation; but if you have wind generation, you need back up (coal, petrol, gas, hidro) for all the time.
Wind and solar (for general purpose, integrated to the grid) are just nonsense.
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Post by magellan on Dec 3, 2011 19:53:28 GMT
I've got a bridge to sell anyone who believes wind is on par with coal costs for producing electricity. Some people believe anything in a brochure.
Why not look at real world experience with wind power, such as Spain and Ireland, both of which are now broke.
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Post by justsomeguy on Dec 3, 2011 22:37:59 GMT
Anyone have a study or just more ill defined, factless drivel?
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Post by justsomeguy on Dec 3, 2011 22:42:44 GMT
Also, noone ever refuted any fact about how wind actually works in the real world at midamerican energy.
Spain, Ireland, and most of Europe is broke because they are economic idiots, not because of power choices
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Post by magellan on Dec 3, 2011 23:09:36 GMT
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Post by magellan on Dec 3, 2011 23:18:07 GMT
Also, noone ever refuted any fact about how wind actually works in the real world at midamerican energy. Spain, Ireland, and most of Europe is broke because they are economic idiots, not because of power choices MidAmerican Energy is being propped up by tax payer dollars just like any other wind power scheme. The Federal Reserve just bailed out Europe, does that make the U.S. smart? Check the U.S. deficit and debt lately? How about California, the #1 "green" economy in the U.S.? They've been dumping countless billions into wind power for 30+ years and still can't operate without huge subsidies. |
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Post by magellan on Dec 3, 2011 23:29:18 GMT
www.juandemariana.org/pdf/090327-employment-public-aid-renewable.pdfEurope’s current policy and strategy for supporting the so-called “green jobs” or renewable energy dates back to 1997, and has become one of the principal justifications for U.S. “green jobs” proposals. Yet an examination of Europe’s experience reveals these policies to be terribly economically counterproductive.
This study is important for several reasons. First is that the Spanish experience is considered a leading example to be followed by many policy advocates and politicians. This study marks the very first time a critical analysis of the actual performance and impact has been made. Most important, it demonstrates that the Spanish/EU-style “green jobs” agenda now being promoted in the U.S. in fact destroys jobs, detailing this in terms of jobs destroyed per job created and the net destruction per installed MW.
The study’s results demonstrate how such “green jobs” policy clearly hinders Spain’s way out of the current economic crisis, even while U.S. politicians insist that rushing into such a scheme will ease their own emergence from the turmoil.
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Post by magellan on Dec 3, 2011 23:34:22 GMT
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Post by magellan on Dec 3, 2011 23:46:13 GMT
No different than Europe thegazette.com/2011/06/05/wind-energy-supporters-push-for-federal-funds/But the fate of the industry depends on a series of subsidies — especially a production tax credit that’s worth from $4 billion to $5 billion to wind energy companies each year. An increasingly brutal budget battle, however, may make it tough to protect those subsidies. |
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Post by curiousgeorge on Dec 3, 2011 23:48:51 GMT
I think the numbers (levelized cost) are less telling than the commentary in the EIA report (not the WUWT link). The takeaway in this report is that wind and solar will not be competitive with fossil/nuke/hydro - ever.
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Post by magellan on Dec 4, 2011 0:05:35 GMT
I think the numbers (levelized cost) are less telling than the commentary in the EIA report (not the WUWT link). The takeaway in this report is that wind and solar will not be competitive with fossil/nuke/hydro - ever. The costs are hidden. Reality is rearing its ugly to the Dutch. Dutch fall out of love with windmills
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