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Post by trbixler on Dec 4, 2008 2:04:57 GMT
pidgey Is oil a fossil fuel?
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Post by pidgey on Dec 4, 2008 2:52:22 GMT
pidgey Is oil a fossil fuel? That can be a trick question. Some of it certainly is but you'd have to ask a real geologist about all of it. I don't know how you'd class Gwahar in your mind as it's mostly made from "fecal pellet limestone". You can read your way down through here to an excerpt from Dr. Kenneth Deffeyes' book: home.entouch.net/dmd/ghawar.htmThere are some who think that there's a renewal process that replenishes oil fields but if that rate of replenishment can't even begin to keep up with our consumption then it's frankly an academic issue. And in that case, it usually devolves into a "young Earth by way of Creationism" versus a "Big Bang evolution" argument. That said, I know what I personally believe about all of that but choose not to get into it. However, I don't have any personal restrictions about soapboxing about Peak Oil. I believe it's imminent and will be one helluva' game-changer.
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Post by trbixler on Dec 4, 2008 5:17:04 GMT
Not so clear to me. How does oil get so deep in the earths crust? There is some thought that it is created by action at the tectonic faces. If so it is being constantly renewed. ;D I am never so sure of what I think I know let alone what I know I know.
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Post by pidgey on Dec 4, 2008 13:44:00 GMT
Seeing as how an awful lot of it is in sedimentary layers, I'm not sure how much of that tectonic explanation I'd believe. www.oilrocks.com/
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Post by trbixler on Dec 4, 2008 16:40:33 GMT
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Post by pidgey on Dec 4, 2008 17:03:13 GMT
That's why I recommend that people just back away from the argument--who really cares if the fields don't replenish themselves at the rate we're using them up? It's like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin while a tsunami is fast approaching the beach towel you're laying on--you'd be better served by getting your a$$ in gear running for higher ground.
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Post by ron on Dec 4, 2008 19:07:58 GMT
Wouldn't it be more like arguing whether the height of the tsunami is 50 feet or 55 feet while you're lying on the beach at 3 feet in elevation?
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Post by pidgey on Dec 4, 2008 20:22:24 GMT
Wouldn't it be more like arguing whether the height of the tsunami is 50 feet or 55 feet while you're lying on the beach at 3 feet in elevation? Yes. NOW START RUNNING, DAMMIT!!!
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Post by trbixler on Dec 5, 2008 1:26:52 GMT
It seems too simple to me but I have to ask in what direction? I am an engineer and programmer by education and profession, I hear many do it now and must take action and... where am I to run. I have done the insulate my house stuff and installed radiant heat (recirculating water) and double paned windows and led lighting etc. 37 years ago I gave up the 60 mile each way commute to under 4 miles each way. I took these actions because I thought that they made sense to me. I did not need exterior direction, in fact I typically go beyond resisting exterior direction. So I would rather talk about a better way to do something than to be told OMG etc. Want to know about warmboard sub flooring? PexAlPex tubing.? Mylar foam mylar barriers? ;D
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Post by pidgey on Dec 5, 2008 10:21:20 GMT
Ahh... which way to run, huh? I suppose the thought experiment needs to run something like this: imagine what would happen to the availability of basic food and water in your locality if the energy (liquid fuels) to run the diesel trucks that distribute food and parts were to be disrupted for an extended period. This wouldn't be because we suddenly ran out of oil--it would be because the JIT (Just In Time) delivery system failed due to shortages and chaos. Don't know where you're actually at, but the US imports approximately 70% of its oil and is currently going deeper into debt to Japan, China, etc. The upshot is that if the rest of the world decides to decouple from the dollar, then hyperinflation could seriously crimp our access to that imported oil. In such a case, there's little hope of us reworking our distribution system to rely more heavily on rail in time to avert serious localized shortages. Cities could easily get pretty horrible and the reliability of electricity could degrade significantly. People don't deal well with that, especially for extended periods.
Therefore, can you feed, water, keep yourself sufficiently warm and medicate if nessary in the event of being without such utilities and services for more than a year at a time? Bear in mind that your neighbor(s) would be in the same basic condition so the question of his/their preparedness can become every bit as significant as your own.
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Post by nautonnier on Dec 14, 2008 2:21:31 GMT
This is perhaps the sub-plot to what is happening. It would be nice to think that all the noise about CO2 is merely a screen to allow imposed reductions in burning of hydrocarbon fuels before people cotton on and start panic buying oil. The panic buying is what started in the summer driving the price up to $140+ per barrel, with all the hedge funds buying oil out to 2020 or so. Many of these funds have now been burned by the cheap price on the spot market. Again if you want a conspiracy perhaps the 'banking crisis' was intended to slow down the panic buy of oil?? At the same time there are some signs of technology starting to work out ways around the problem see: greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/09/taking-flight-on-jatropha-fuel/www.elpasotimes.com/ci_11168077Want to do it yourself? www.algaedepot.com/servlet/StoreFront?gclid=CPr95JH_vpcCFQIfswodzzhRRQ I foresee neighborhood 'oil-brewers' so perhaps there is a way out. As with all these things only time will tell.
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Post by frankthetank on Dec 14, 2008 18:38:24 GMT
Hi guys. First post so be kind. I've been "studying" the subject of Peak Oil since roughly 2002 or so. When i was much younger i always wondered what happens when oil runs out...so i guess somewhere in my 20's i decided to find out. Ever since then i've been bouncing off the walls trying to figure out where we are going. First we have to consume less. Its about time people start using their legs and get away from XBox and start gardening, producing things, and becoming healthier, friendlier in the process Solar/Wind...both good for a small part of our electrical needs. Solar is nice when used in hot water heating. A lot of third worlder's use it to heat their water i've noticed. Coal... Dirty, stinky... Somehow if you could burn it and scrub the exhaust of all those heavy metals, it would be good for home heating (better then wood). Maybe somehow break it down (like what the Nazis did) into fuel and use it for trucking? Not sure. The way its currently used for electricity production is stupid and polluting (much more then nuclear in my opinion). Natural gas... Horrifying that people use the cleanest of fuels to make electricity. Should only be used for heating. Also could be used for transportation too. Don't forget fertilizer uses. Very important. Nuclear. The king. If you haven't read up on it, check out THORIUM BASED REACTORS. For what i understand, all the hype is true. Have no idea why the Chinese/Indians aren't building these by the boatload (India has lots of Thorium). I just came across Thorium reactors in the past few weeks and am stunned i never read about it before. This could be the goose that laid the golden egg. The older reactors are OK with me too... Wish we used breeder reactors, however. Transportation will have to either go away entirely or move to battery based system. Oil is going to become to valuable to have grandma burning it to drive to her mailbox. I see a time when only the military/trains/agriculture will have access to oil (diesel). Amtrak should be expanded immediately along with more rail lines being laid. ETHANOL=biggest scam going. Why we burn food to go to the mall... can't understand that. Population hasn't been discussed, but we can't keep growing without at some point having a horrible starvation episode. We enter another ice age and the majority of us our toast. Stay happy and enjoy life. It may not be here tomorrow! Don't stare at the sun for more then an hour looking for spots... bad things happen...
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Post by nautonnier on Dec 14, 2008 20:46:31 GMT
Nice first post Frank, look forward to lots of interesting discussion with 'Ron' who wants to put solar heat collectors over the entire state of Arizona ;D I agree with you that the future has got to rely on Thorium pebble bed reactors or similar fail safe systems. There is a large investment in South Africa, but China is also looking into these. The power requirement for current civilization is for consistent industrial levels of power - these are not produced by wind and solar there is some chance in tidal power in the right areas and hydroelectric if you don't mind flooding vast tracts of valuable riverside land. Then there is a requirement for transport power, battery powered cars sound good if you can identify where the lead, nickel, cadmium, or lithium is going to come from for the batteries. Then all these cars will be plugged in to recharge at night - back to top to see requirement for consistent industrial levels of power. Then we have aviation which, apart from some rather slow and delicate sail planes with solar cells, requires hydrocarbon fuels. The modern aircraft are surprisingly frugal on use of fuel. There are also experiments in progress by Boeing, Continental Airlines and Virgin Atlantic on the use of algae-generated and (non-food) vegetation based fuels. Virgin actually flew a 747 to Amsterdam from UK on a test using it. Watch this space - the concentration of the media and the 'baying AGW multitudes' may well be on wind power. But I think that Pebble Bed Reactors and algae generated bio fuels will be what becomes the mainstay of power in future.
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Post by bob9000 on Dec 15, 2008 0:54:45 GMT
hey, its frankthetank! I've been lurking at peakoil.com for years. Everybody, this guy knows his stuff. Listen to him and learn things. BTW frank, you'll find this place more sceptical about peak oil. Though its still an open question and people are quite open minded around here, I wouldn't expect people to come running to you for peak oil education. But anyway, rock on, welcome to the board
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Post by trbixler on Dec 15, 2008 2:39:10 GMT
I wonder how solar and wind would do on east coast with the ice and such. Maybe a small problem. How about solar and wind in North Dakota and Montana?
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