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Post by sigurdur on Aug 16, 2015 21:38:06 GMT
Graywolf: With all due respect, a lot of things amaze you. I get a chuckle out of most of your posts.
I don't know if it is watching my young grand kids learn, but there is a lot to be said for youth as everything is new to them. As I age, I realize how what is new to them is old to me. But from their perspective, every event is new.
Something I find pleasure in is how they will spend hours playing with play dough. Grandma makes a batch, and they are so excited to share their creative works.
I can see the play dough in you. A small change in the outcome is an adventure. Thing to remember tho, in the end it is still play dough. Ball it up and you have a canvas for something new.
Climate is like that. Remember I commented that the satellites were not picking up the expected increase in temp? They still haven't.
I can only imagine.your posts from.1944 when the St Rock sailed for days on end and encountered no ice. This is the Northern NW passage which is still ice clogged.
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Post by nonentropic on Aug 16, 2015 22:13:05 GMT
Sig great post, spot on.
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Post by Andrew on Aug 17, 2015 3:15:25 GMT
Arctic sea ice looking very weak around the north of Greenland.
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Post by Andrew on Aug 17, 2015 3:22:44 GMT
1944 when the St Rock sailed for days on end and encountered no ice. This is the Northern NW passage which is still ice clogged. The passage was full of ice in 1944. Larsen had one up on modern boats because he was able to overwinter in the ice.
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 17, 2015 3:35:46 GMT
1944 when the St Rock sailed for days on end and encountered no ice. This is the Northern NW passage which is still ice clogged. The passage was full of ice in 1944. Larsen had one up on modern boats because he was able to overwinter in the ice. Andrew: Sorry, your information is flat out wrong. Larsen sailed the passage in one summer. He started in Halifax, NS and ended up at Vancouver, BC. I ordered his log of the voyage. A very interesting read to say the least. The main thing of note is that it was the Northern route. The southern route is normally open as Canada resupplied outposts annually via the southern route.
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 17, 2015 3:37:51 GMT
Another interesting fact from that period is that Germany sent a warship to the Pacific via the NE route. It's presence was a huge surprise to the Pacific fleet.
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 17, 2015 3:39:27 GMT
Another little known tidbit is that Russia has a huge port that uses the NE route on an annual basis.
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Post by Andrew on Aug 17, 2015 3:42:40 GMT
The passage was full of ice in 1944. Larsen had one up on modern boats because he was able to overwinter in the ice. Andrew: Sorry, your information is flat out wrong. Larsen sailed the passage in one summer. He started in Halifax, NS and ended up at Vancouver, BC. I ordered his log of the voyage. A very interesting read to say the least. The main thing of note is that it was the Northern route. The southern route is normally open as Canada resupplied outposts annually via the southern route. You are mixing up my comment. I never said/implied the boat took more than one season.
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 17, 2015 4:12:33 GMT
You stated the passage was full of ice. It wasn't.
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Post by Andrew on Aug 17, 2015 4:52:05 GMT
You stated the passage was full of ice. It wasn't. The way forwards was totally blocked by ice. The nature of the ice is that it moves. The wind and the tides change. Larsen had confidance his boat could wait out many situations that a modern small boat could not risk and so he could always go forwards where the conditions permitted and find a way eventually.
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Post by flearider on Aug 17, 2015 19:24:06 GMT
hmm we may be seeing a shrinking here as well theres a strong jet stream pulling warm air into the area around Greenland ... we will see
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Post by graywolf on Aug 18, 2015 8:33:08 GMT
A couple of days away from sailing past the 2013 min and not far then to pass 2014 and then 2009
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Post by throttleup on Aug 19, 2015 0:07:28 GMT
A couple of days away from sailing past the 2013 min and not far then to pass 2014 and then 2009 I guess we can just bend over and kiss our ice goodbye!
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Post by tobyglyn on Aug 19, 2015 8:51:57 GMT
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Post by graywolf on Aug 19, 2015 15:57:50 GMT
2013 min passed today and 2014 by weekend..... then we are after 2010's min!!!
I am still very concerned about this new 'old ice' that we see in the basin? 2010 saw the last of the old Paleocryistic ice ( in the volume slump of that year) meaning that all the new ice is a product of the 'new Arctic' ( post 07'). We no longer see thick ice stuffing the Beaufort Gyre and travelling ( thickening all the while) for decades before breaking free and entering the trans Arctic drift. If you look at the images you see the Pacific side of the gyre melt out each year so less than half of the gyre lasts through the year of which a good proportion ends up rotted ( like we see from the various ships cams over summer?) and so full of cavities which then infill with FY 'infill ice'. This is not the same as desalinated multi-decades old compressed 8m thick sea ice? Even the over slabbing just puts another layer of rotted ice on top of the other ( so 4m thick 'rotten ice'?)
One year preconditioning in June/July will be so severe ( perfect melt storm like 07' and the next in 2017?) that bottom melt end of the season ( now!) will see off the old carcass ice.
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