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Post by nautonnier on Dec 30, 2016 10:23:54 GMT
When Obama came to power he stated that he would run the most transparent government in history. Why is he complaining when the Russian's assisted him in meeting his goals?
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Post by nautonnier on Dec 30, 2016 10:27:33 GMT
And of course we should not forget that the leaks came from a disaffected member of staff working for the DNC who passed them all to Wikileaks who have stated that they had no inputs from any state agencies such as the Russians. A DNC staffer on their computer systems was found dead in DC from two gunshot wounds to the back after being beaten but nothing taken from him - purely coincidental of course.
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Post by missouriboy on Dec 30, 2016 13:17:24 GMT
Personally, I am more than concerned about the Middle East. Egypt is one step away from being a failed state. Turkey is no longer democratic. There are civil wars in Syria, Iraq and Yemen. Saudi Arabia looks precarious. I am sure that US Foriegn Policy in the ME for the last ten years will be looked on by future historians as disastrous. Interesting coincidences. It has been 100 years since the disassembly of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI. The last major pulse of military Islam at the West occurred in 1683 (Maunder times), The decisive alliance of the Holy Roman Empire with Poland was concluded in the 1683 Treaty of Warsaw, in which Leopold promised support to Sobieski if the Ottomans attacked Kraków; in return, the Polish Army would come to the relief of Vienna if it were attacked. ... Ottoman troops reached Belgrade by early May.The decisive naval defeat at Lepanto had set the Sultans back in 1571. The repulse of the first major Islamic military thrust at the West occurred at Tours in 732 ... toward the later part of the European 'Dark Ages' cold period. At the Battle of Tours near Poitiers, France, Frankish leader Charles Martel, a Christian, defeats a large army of Spanish Moors, halting the Muslim advance into Western Europe. Abd-ar-Rahman, the Muslim governor of Cordoba, was killed in the fighting, and the Moors retreated from Gaul, never to return in such force.The Dark Side is rising again. This would all make a great short story in the vein of Issac Asimov's 'Nightfall', where a people continuously bathed in sunlight from multiple suns is periodically plunged into darkness by astronomic events with terrible societal results. This would all be great fun if it was not so serious. Whether or not humans are subject to such stresses, the story is a good one. www.uni.edu/morgans/astro/course/nightfall.pdf
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Post by sigurdur on Dec 30, 2016 13:17:27 GMT
I talked to two survivors of the above. Only time in US History that a US Navy ship was attacked in International Waters and nothing was done about it. Shameful, very shameful. Israel started the 67 war to take more land. They are building settlements to cement that taking. They are declaring 1,000 year old deeds null and void. They are crooks. The Liberty incident was a real tragedy. Having paid a lot of attention to what was going on then I have little doubt that Israel's preemptive strike saved the nation of Israel. They were facing four armies of Syria, Iraq, Jordan, and Egypt. They were out numbered and out gunned having inferior equipment. The US was at least trying to maintain the appearance of neutrality and had banned arm sales to both sides. Though I have little doubt that we were clandestinely aiding Israel, especially since the Syrians and Egyptians had cozied up to the Soviets. The Israelis succeeded because an all out audacious attack on the Egyptian army that had moved up to the Israeli border. Israel had warned Egypt that if they closed the Strait of Tiran to Israeli shipping, Israel would treat that as an act of warm. Meanwhile the Iraqis were moving divisions into Jordan. I don't think Israel had any choice. They had hoped that they could punish Egypt for closing the Strait and tried to use UN contacts to try to dissuade the others from intervening. But the Jordanians, and Syrians attacked. I can see no evidence that the Liberty thing wasn't a huge mistake. Israeli military strategy emphasized field commanders making decisions outside of planning and I would think is the most likely reason why the Liberty was attacked. If all information went through a single command structure it probably would not have happened. Yes the US down played the issue but I think that was to quiet the anti-semitic outcry in the US at a time when about 30% of Americans were considered to be anti-semitic. Icefisher: Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Remember, the USA Liberty was a signet ship. Watch the video. The BBC actually did a good job in regards to facts.
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Post by missouriboy on Dec 30, 2016 13:28:17 GMT
There was of course the USS Stark incident in 1987. We let that one go too. Seems Saddam was our 'chosen boy' at the time.
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Post by walnut on Dec 30, 2016 15:07:41 GMT
Personally, I am more than concerned about the Middle East. Egypt is one step away from being a failed state. Turkey is no longer democratic. There are civil wars in Syria, Iraq and Yemen. Saudi Arabia looks precarious. I am sure that US Foriegn Policy in the ME for the last ten years will be looked on by future historians as disastrous. Bush policy did not help the US, Obama's admin definitely has hurt the US, I think Trump might be better, fingers crossed.
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Post by missouriboy on Dec 30, 2016 15:36:16 GMT
1,000 year old deeds? Source? Title Company?Is there a mortgage? Apparently so ... and Mohammad's heirs are taking the issue to higher court in the old fashioned way,
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Post by nautonnier on Dec 30, 2016 16:01:13 GMT
Well, yes and no Sig.
All the borders in the entire middle east were setup after the fall of the Ottoman Empire by Great Britain and France with a view to stymying any rise in nationalism in the Levant. So political borders were set that did not match old borders and countries created (or deleted). So Iraq was created and Kurdistan was shared between Turkey, Iraq and Iran. Palestine was created (now mainly called Jordan) for the Palestinians. The two main losers in this phase of 'The Great Game' were the Kurds and the Jews/Israelites. The Israelites fought a guerilla war against Great Britain after the second world war to have their 'homeland' recognized. The Balfour Treaty established the borders of Israel that lasted until the 1967 war with the same aim as the original borders - trying to divide and manage...it did not work. Both the Palestinians and the Israelites disputedthe borders. The Palestinians instead of peacefully coexisting as they had when it was 'their' land, created 'refugee camps' which exist to this day. They have received as much if not more foreign aid as Israel, but sequestered much in Swiss banks or spent it on weapons.
The Syrians allowed the Golan heights to be used to shell Israel, Gaza was used as it is now to shell Israel and the Egyptians were planning to take out a large part of Israel from the Sinai peninsula. This was the reason for the pre-emptive strike in 1967. The Egyptian air force had obligingly left their aircraft parked in neat rows ideal for strafing. The Syrians were not ready for an attack from Israel, and the Israelis succeeded in their brief 6 day war in moving borders to more defensible positions. They actually offered the Golan heights back to Syria as part of a peace accord but were told where to put their ideas.
There are some of the Israelis such as the Hasidic Jews that are not nice people by whatever metric. There are others that just want somewhere peaceful to live as Israelites. The entire mess stems back to the Ottoman empire and Britain and France rejigging the boundaries.
Now to the present day, and Obama and Ayres his erstwhile academic compatriot in Chicago (ex-the weather underground), sought to assist the Muslim Brotherhood recreating the Caliphate of the Ottoman Empire. Ayres was one of the organizers of the Gaza Convoys that were stopped by Israel. Obama via Clinton initiated the 'Arab Spring' by deposing the Egyptian president and replacing him with Muslim Brotherhood government. The intention being that it would link with the Muslim Brotherhood in Turkey and become a new Ottoman Empire. That is why the US troops were pulled out so fast. However, the Egyptian military did not accept the Muslim Brotherhood and its sacking of Christian churches, and overthrew it in Egypt. Nevertheless, to continue their attempt to create a caliphate, Obama's administration as represented by Hillary Clinton, initiated an attack on Libya with the same intent to put in place Muslim Brotherhood, but it all fell apart. The Fast and Furious II gun running from Benghazi was a total failure and the weapons were used against the consulate. To hush it all up all military attempts to rescue the CIA and Ambassador were stymied by the Administration resulting in several senior officers being removed from post.
So yes, Israel now mistrusts the USA as anyone who understands what is going on would. Obama will happily condemn the world to world war 3 to get more votes. His backers like Soros are even less ethical (as you would expect from someone that sold fellow Jews to the Nazis). We now see Obama trying to screw Israel through the UN with the eager assistance of Kerry.
In the meantime the adult in the room Putin, is trying to pull Syria's nuts out of the fire, and get a result in 'The Great Game' that favors Russia. So expect Obama's last days in office to be spent alternately being petulant with Russia and throwing grit in the gears of the Trump transition.
The sad one in all this is Lindsay 'I was hacked by the Russians too' Graham, who obviously does not know what is going on.
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Post by icefisher on Dec 30, 2016 16:41:47 GMT
Icefisher: Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Remember, the USA Liberty was a signet ship. Watch the video. The BBC actually did a good job in regards to facts. I don't see it. I see no motive. I think it has been the case that hanky panky has been suggested in every friendly fire incident in history. Because of that governments do everything possible to shroud friendly fire incidents in silence if not down right lies. The reason? Simple they are horribly damaging to morale and have incredible backlashes against the primary mission. I thought the BBC piece did a good job but other papers on the matter get into a lot more detail about what the Israelis were seeing and thinking. They had reports of fast moving ships and troop carriers. The first strike knocked down the Liberty's colors. Actually what ended the series of strikes was the fact that the Israelis were getting reports that the ship was not firing back. If the plan was to sink the Liberty and blame it on the Egyptians they would have sunk it. The Israelis were the first to say they had mistakenly attacked a US ship. As it was the ship was nearly sinking when the recalled the assault. I don't blame the crew for being bitter about the lack of recognition for the plight of the ship and its crew. This also is typical of friendly fire incidents and the political motives for this are clear.
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Post by nautonnier on Dec 30, 2016 20:12:35 GMT
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Post by sigurdur on Dec 31, 2016 2:35:14 GMT
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Post by icefisher on Dec 31, 2016 6:08:57 GMT
Interesting article. However, I think this as Winston Churchill would say after the breakthrough at El Alamein and the Operation Torch landings that its maybe the "end of the beginning".
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Post by Ratty on Dec 31, 2016 6:21:14 GMT
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Post by walnut on Dec 31, 2016 6:37:49 GMT
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Post by walnut on Dec 31, 2016 6:45:53 GMT
Look, real spooks to keep the democrats awake at night. They should stop tilting at windmills.
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