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Post by nautonnier on Nov 1, 2017 10:06:34 GMT
Another little bit of joy brought to you by a rapidly rising segment of the Progressive Party. Expect platitudes and a general defense of the migrant elements of the true Great Satan. The mayor should take a good long look in the mirror while he awaits something worse. I think this is something the conservative party is mis-characterizing others on. I don't think any group of any size in the US is going to give platitudes to the terrorist, nor do they think the US is the "Great Satan." However; I expect a knee-jerk reaction from many in the US pointing to this terrorist as "typical" of Muslims in the US. That will be an over-reaction, and there will be an equal over-reaction from the other side. What percentage of the Muslims in the US do you think this guy represents? I know I work very closely with several Muslims in the US, and at least two of them are very big contributors to my success within this company. Should I look at them as being like this guy? Who would Muslims in the US generally be more like: The terrorist? or the guys I work with? I think they're individuals, and getting our panties into a wad about a group and its danger to us leads the US to actions that embarrass its posterity. Take the Japanese interment of WW II as an example, and think of it ... The 'twittersphere' has already started with 'cautions on Islamophobia' even before sympathy to the people killed some of whom could have been Muslims - terrorists don't care. Indeed if those killed were the wrong sect then they would be glad about it. I have also worked closely with many Muslims from various countries and have had the same experience as you. However, the authoritarian nature of Islam means that in a large group they will not voice opposition to the 'mad mullahs' and their followers. To be honest I think that this is a human trait that is being taken advantage of as you can see precisely the same attitudes being fostered in 'Antifa' against anyone who does not support the far left viewpoint. It is atavism, othering people and reverting to tribalism and therefore the other person is less human - 'a basket of deplorables' as Hillary said exposing her approach to drumming up tribalism in her supporters. So I see no difference in approach between those in an Antifa riot who lose all their humanity to an 'Islamic terrorist'. EXCEPT - the Islamic terrorist has a religion going back centuries that promises heaven for terrorist behavior, says it is OK to lie to a 'kafir' and effectively that kafirs are subhuman to be used. The Democrats have not gone quite that far -yet- but it is getting close. There is always a small percentage of a group that will take that atavistic othering to an extreme - try being a right footer in a left footer community in Northern Ireland or Scotland. It is unfortunate that power hungry priests and politicians are encouraging these extremists for their own gain; it is unsurprising these extremists take extreme action. However, it is also disappointing when the less extreme community will not expose extremists in their midst as that would be talking to 'the othered' group. [ Othering is the process of casting a group, an individual or an object into the role of the 'other' and establishing one's own identity through opposition to and, frequently, vilification of this Other.Sep 10, 2012 The Other and Othering - A short introduction | Yiannis Gabriel www.yiannisgabriel.com/2012/09/the-other-and-othering-short.htmlAlso known as dehumanizing ] [ right-footer Also found in: Wikipedia. right-footer n (Protestantism) (esp in Ireland) a Protestant [See left-footer] ]
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Post by missouriboy on Nov 1, 2017 10:26:46 GMT
Another little bit of joy brought to you by a rapidly rising segment of the Progressive Party. Expect platitudes and a general defense of the migrant elements of the true Great Satan. The mayor should take a good long look in the mirror while he awaits something worse. I think this is something the conservative party is mis-characterizing others on. I don't think any group of any size in the US is going to give platitudes to the terrorist, nor do they think the US is the "Great Satan." However; I expect a knee-jerk reaction from many in the US pointing to this terrorist as "typical" of Muslims in the US. That will be an over-reaction, and there will be an equal over-reaction from the other side. What percentage of the Muslims in the US do you think this guy represents? I know I work very closely with several Muslims in the US, and at least two of them are very big contributors to my success within this company. Should I look at them as being like this guy? Who would Muslims in the US generally be more like: The terrorist? or the guys I work with?I think they're individuals, and getting our panties into a wad about a group and its danger to us leads the US to actions that embarrass its posterity. Take the Japanese interment of WW II as an example, and think of it ... We are all "typical" (in a statistical sense) of the culture from which we spring ... the clan, the tribe, the nation. They all have their package of cultural elements to which "we" as individuals subscribe (or resist) ... however mild or strong. We all have our individual preferences and loyalties. It is merely a matter of intensity. A muli-ethnic nation such as the US works (or not) because the differences of the "cultures" are suppressed by a larger voluntary loyalty to a common package of ideals that stress individual rights, liberty and responsibility, This often includes things we don't agree with, but we accept because it preserves those things we do believe in. Five years of day to day interactions with Arab Muslims (in their countries) convinced me that, as individuals, they were no different than any other individuals I had worked with anywhere else in the world, They are however not multi-cultural, particularly in regards to their dominant cultural element ... Islam. And, like other peoples in their own areas, they are very clannish. I cannot count the number of times in the course of casual conversation regarding history and politics (and yes they do like to discuss them over there) that they stated their belief in ultimate world peace, which would occur when everyone was Muslim ... often followed with a statement of the Muslim's duty. These of course were the educated fellows, SO ... What percentage of the Muslims in the US (and Europe) do you think this guy represents? I think you are in the process of finding out. A new cyclical wave is moving the old culture forward once again. Colombian's have a saying ... "When the river sounds, rocks roll." The pebbles of the diaspora are moving.
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Post by slh1234 on Nov 1, 2017 14:45:47 GMT
I think this is something the conservative party is mis-characterizing others on. I don't think any group of any size in the US is going to give platitudes to the terrorist, nor do they think the US is the "Great Satan." However; I expect a knee-jerk reaction from many in the US pointing to this terrorist as "typical" of Muslims in the US. That will be an over-reaction, and there will be an equal over-reaction from the other side. What percentage of the Muslims in the US do you think this guy represents? I know I work very closely with several Muslims in the US, and at least two of them are very big contributors to my success within this company. Should I look at them as being like this guy? Who would Muslims in the US generally be more like: The terrorist? or the guys I work with? I think they're individuals, and getting our panties into a wad about a group and its danger to us leads the US to actions that embarrass its posterity. Take the Japanese interment of WW II as an example, and think of it ... The 'twittersphere' has already started with 'cautions on Islamophobia' even before sympathy to the people killed some of whom could have been Muslims - terrorists don't care. Indeed if those killed were the wrong sect then they would be glad about it. I have also worked closely with many Muslims from various countries and have had the same experience as you. However, the authoritarian nature of Islam means that in a large group they will not voice opposition to the 'mad mullahs' and their followers. To be honest I think that this is a human trait that is being taken advantage of as you can see precisely the same attitudes being fostered in 'Antifa' against anyone who does not support the far left viewpoint. It is atavism, othering people and reverting to tribalism and therefore the other person is less human - 'a basket of deplorables' as Hillary said exposing her approach to drumming up tribalism in her supporters. So I see no difference in approach between those in an Antifa riot who lose all their humanity to an 'Islamic terrorist'. EXCEPT - the Islamic terrorist has a religion going back centuries that promises heaven for terrorist behavior, says it is OK to lie to a 'kafir' and effectively that kafirs are subhuman to be used. The Democrats have not gone quite that far -yet- but it is getting close. There is always a small percentage of a group that will take that atavistic othering to an extreme - try being a right footer in a left footer community in Northern Ireland or Scotland. It is unfortunate that power hungry priests and politicians are encouraging these extremists for their own gain; it is unsurprising these extremists take extreme action. However, it is also disappointing when the less extreme community will not expose extremists in their midst as that would be talking to 'the othered' group. [ Othering is the process of casting a group, an individual or an object into the role of the 'other' and establishing one's own identity through opposition to and, frequently, vilification of this Other.Sep 10, 2012 The Other and Othering - A short introduction | Yiannis Gabriel www.yiannisgabriel.com/2012/09/the-other-and-othering-short.htmlAlso known as dehumanizing ] [ right-footer Also found in: Wikipedia. right-footer n (Protestantism) (esp in Ireland) a Protestant [See left-footer] ] I don't twitter, but I can understand the cautions starting due to the reactions we've had on other media in recent years. On the "less extreme" groups, I've expressed some frustration on this point, but have also been asked, in a polite fashion, what the reaction is when one group you associate with performs something you detest and don't agree with, and the reaction you face is that you are included with them and labelled as the enemy. In my case, these days, I think I tend to react against the extremes in my own group - taking a "clean off my own front porch first" approach, but I'm probably being naive in evaluating what I'd do in the face of a more austere environment (and Muslims face a more austere environment in the US than I do). I'm not sure I would have reacted that direction before my 50th birthday, but I've noticed I'm much more contrary as I've entered that later phase. You can find wars in history with religious motivations. You can find wars in history without religious motivation. You cannot find any war any time without political motivations as its driving force. There is nothing more zealous than a young man on a mission. There is nobody that knows how to tap into that zeal better than an old man with a hunger for power or money. EDIT: I missed responding to the "Antifa" part. You know, the right has become scarier to me than the left these days, and they seem to lack the introspective to see why. (Actually, both sides seem to lack introspection.) Antifa is not an organization, just like the Tea Party is not an organization. It is a group drawn to an idea or word, whether incorrectly or correctly, and taking action they see as right based on that. With Antifa, it is "Anti Fascist." I disagree that the people they are opposing are necessarily fascist, but that is their belief. There is no centralized group of "Antifa" that is planning a revolution on November 9th, for example - that is just rhetoric that people use to raise emotions for their political side. Ironically, I was in a discussion on another board a while back with a fellow who was ranting against Antifa, and he actually brought up McCarthy, and thought that was what was needed in the US today. He went on to justify this by saying that a "purge" of Hollywood and the liberals in the US would do us a world of good. I thought that was pretty rich - a totalitarian ranting against "communists." I engaged in the conversation respectfully, but as soon as he saw that I wasn't taking his part, his response began like "You're lying and somebody needs to bust your mouth in. There is no right-wing equivalent of Antifa ... " I told him to look in the mirror - he is it, then proceeded to point out the rest of the intolerance to other viewpoints in his post. He didn't reply again. When it comes to the more moderate voices not calling out the extreme voices in a group/movement, this area is where I see the political right in the US failing to call out the more extreme of their own ranks, even while calling for other groups (such as muslims, or Antifa) to do that for thier groups. I really see more similarity than difference in the political groups in the US, and unlike I'm sometimes accused of, I'm not "pretending to be above the fray," nor am I "afraid to choose a side." I actively do not want to be a part of either side, and I'm not afraid to take a position and contend for it. I see the two political sides in the US as being the problem, and continuing in their obstinance to drive wedges deeper and deeper between people groups in the US. We're on a course for conflict in the US if we don't change. I don't want the conflict, and choosing one of those two sides does not help to avoid such a conflict.
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Post by slh1234 on Nov 1, 2017 14:58:32 GMT
I think this is something the conservative party is mis-characterizing others on. I don't think any group of any size in the US is going to give platitudes to the terrorist, nor do they think the US is the "Great Satan." However; I expect a knee-jerk reaction from many in the US pointing to this terrorist as "typical" of Muslims in the US. That will be an over-reaction, and there will be an equal over-reaction from the other side. What percentage of the Muslims in the US do you think this guy represents? I know I work very closely with several Muslims in the US, and at least two of them are very big contributors to my success within this company. Should I look at them as being like this guy? Who would Muslims in the US generally be more like: The terrorist? or the guys I work with?I think they're individuals, and getting our panties into a wad about a group and its danger to us leads the US to actions that embarrass its posterity. Take the Japanese interment of WW II as an example, and think of it ... We are all "typical" (in a statistical sense) of the culture from which we spring ... the clan, the tribe, the nation. They all have their package of cultural elements to which "we" as individuals subscribe (or resist) ... however mild or strong. We all have our individual preferences and loyalties. It is merely a matter of intensity. A muli-ethnic nation such as the US works (or not) because the differences of the "cultures" are suppressed by a larger voluntary loyalty to a common package of ideals that stress individual rights, liberty and responsibility, This often includes things we don't agree with, but we accept because it preserves those things we do believe in. Five years of day to day interactions with Arab Muslims (in their countries) convinced me that, as individuals, they were no different than any other individuals I had worked with anywhere else in the world, They are however not multi-cultural, particularly in regards to their dominant cultural element ... Islam. And, like other peoples in their own areas, they are very clannish. I cannot count the number of times in the course of casual conversation regarding history and politics (and yes they do like to discuss them over there) that they stated their belief in ultimate world peace, which would occur when everyone was Muslim ... often followed with a statement of the Muslim's duty. These of course were the educated fellows, SO ... What percentage of the Muslims in the US (and Europe) do you think this guy represents? I think you are in the process of finding out. A new cyclical wave is moving the old culture forward once again. Colombian's have a saying ... "When the river sounds, rocks roll." The pebbles of the diaspora are moving. I notice that you introduced two factors that differ, but you only took one into account when forming your conclusion. The two factors are "Muslim" and "Over there." You only took "muslim" into account. When "they" come "over here," they get exposed to the same multi-cultural elements that we do, especially in work environments like the one I'm in. I know that changed a lot of ideas in this blue-eyed Cherokee farm boy from Oklahoma. When they work "over there" in those multi-cultural global jobs, they likewise get exposed to such multi-cultural influences. I'm a Christian. The predominant belief in Christianity is that the world will only be peaceful with Christ returns and puts all his enemies under his feet. There is debate about the meaning of the millennium, but wherever it is placed, most Christians look at the battle at the valley of Meggido (Armageddon) as being the battle that ushers this in, and in some descriptions, that has blood up to the horses' bridles. I know from experience that, when politically expedient, some may attribute that belief to violent tendencies in Christians, and I've had that, and history used, when politically expedient, to ascribe motives to me that I have never entertained. So now, beliefs like you describe for Muslims are supposed to be evidence of motivations for violence? I seem more of a parallel to what has been done with me. I've taken flak for the position I've come to that the big, international corporations are the biggest force for peace in the world today, but what they do is put people in a place to interact with many other of different cultures. After a while, that erodes the natural xenophobia that people harbor. I've seen this. You had a chance to influence your counterparts in the Middle East, and I've had a good number of years to be an informal ambassador to peoples in East Asia. I think this kind of exposure and interaction is necessary for a more peaceful future. One thing we can see from history is that our natural tendency to associate with our own (however we define that), and tell ourselves how good we are, and how flawed or evil that other group is leads to conflict and war. The ones who are perpetrating violence these days tend to be the young folks who have associated with one group and refused to see the other groups as anything other than flawed and/or evil. Continued isolation continues to create this, and in this day of international travel, keeping them "over there" is no longer adequate. It takes outreach to educate and influence a culture. One makes peace only with one's enemies.
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Post by Ratty on Nov 2, 2017 1:53:59 GMT
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Post by missouriboy on Nov 2, 2017 2:47:23 GMT
Then you Ratty would be living here? History's a funny thing isn't it?
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Post by Ratty on Nov 2, 2017 7:57:34 GMT
Then you Ratty would be living here? History's a funny thing isn't it? No. I could never get used to driving on the wrong side of the road ......
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Post by blustnmtn on Nov 2, 2017 10:12:49 GMT
Then you Ratty would be living here? History's a funny thing isn't it? No. I could never get used to driving on the wrong side of the road ...... Ratty- You would be in good company since most of the people driving here don’t seem to know how to drive at all. No worries though, autonomous vehicles are coming soon to fix everything....NOT.
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Post by nautonnier on Nov 2, 2017 10:16:40 GMT
Hey the terrorist that just killed people in New York won a golden ticket in the lottery!! "From a security standpoint, the program admits a disproportionate share of immigrants from terrorist breeding grounds, and creates new migration networks from those places where none existed before. Looking at the 2015 green card data (the most recent available) shows the lottery accounted for less than 5 percent of total green cards issued that year. But the percentages of green cards from potential terror hotspots that were granted through the visa lottery are much larger"www.nationalreview.com/corner/453326/abolish-visa-lottery
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Post by Ratty on Nov 2, 2017 12:42:47 GMT
No. I could never get used to driving on the wrong side of the road ...... Ratty- You would be in good company since most of the people driving here don’t seem to know how to drive at all. No worries though, autonomous vehicles are coming soon to fix everything....NOT. I can't wait to see safe autonomous vehicles on Australian roads with a commensurate reduction in vehicle insurance premiums but ... I'm not
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Post by blustnmtn on Nov 2, 2017 12:44:59 GMT
Hey the terrorist that just killed people in New York won a golden ticket in the lottery!! "From a security standpoint, the program admits a disproportionate share of immigrants from terrorist breeding grounds, and creates new migration networks from those places where none existed before. Looking at the 2015 green card data (the most recent available) shows the lottery accounted for less than 5 percent of total green cards issued that year. But the percentages of green cards from potential terror hotspots that were granted through the visa lottery are much larger"www.nationalreview.com/corner/453326/abolish-visa-lotteryAnd then there's the chain migration bonus (23 new "americans" in this case alone)! www.dailywire.com/news/23054/chain-migration-trump-reveals-nyc-terror-suspect-emily-zanotti#exit-modal
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Post by blustnmtn on Nov 2, 2017 12:50:10 GMT
Ratty- You would be in good company since most of the people driving here don’t seem to know how to drive at all. No worries though, autonomous vehicles are coming soon to fix everything....NOT. I can't wait to see safe autonomous vehicles on Australian roads with a commensurate reduction in vehicle insurance premiums but ... I'm not They're finalizing the algorithms for entering and exiting "roundabouts" as we speak Ratty.
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Post by Ratty on Nov 2, 2017 23:23:35 GMT
[ Snip ] They're finalizing the algorithms for entering and exiting "roundabouts" as we speak Ratty. There is no algorithm for roundabouts, Blue. I see concrete walls with old tyres as buffers. PS: Do you think it might be prudent to invest in any company that makes paint for line marking?
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Post by missouriboy on Nov 3, 2017 13:46:14 GMT
[ Snip ] They're finalizing the algorithms for entering and exiting "roundabouts" as we speak Ratty. There is no algorithm for roundabouts, Blue. I see concrete walls with old tyres as buffers. PS: Do you think it might be prudent to invest in any company that makes paint for line marking? I learned roundabout driving in Saudi Arabia. It's all in the attitude! Line markings? We don't need no stinking line markings! livinginsaudiarabia.org/261/how-to-survive-driving-in-saudi-arabia/ I can testify to the truth of this gospel. EXITING A ROUNDABOUT - the tyres didn't help
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Post by blustnmtn on Nov 3, 2017 14:15:13 GMT
There is no algorithm for roundabouts, Blue. I see concrete walls with old tyres as buffers. PS: Do you think it might be prudent to invest in any company that makes paint for line marking? I learned roundabout driving in Saudi Arabia. It's all in the attitude! Line markings? We don't need no stinking line markings! I learned in Italy but I think the Italians just close their eyes and go for it. At least they drive on the “Correct” side of the road. I didn’t drive during my visits to Oz. I sat “white knuckled” in the passenger seat. I wonder what would happen if an “autonomous vehicle” experienced a “system crash” in a roundabout.😜
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