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Post by sigurdur on Jan 31, 2014 23:16:34 GMT
Andrew:
I understand the process totally.
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Post by Andrew on Feb 1, 2014 7:22:04 GMT
LOL! Your the idiot who argued at the start that the energy of latent heat does not rise externally from the ice. When are you going to stop that endless dishonest stupidity?? If we both had known the precise meaning of spontaneous this conversation might have panned out differently. Latent heat internally maintains the temperature of the ice for a longer sensible heating period than it would otherwise. Zero heat spontaneously arises out of freezing water. The only heating experienced is the ordinary heating that arises from 0C water. No heating is detectable to a thermometer due to the freezing of water other than the delay in temperature reduction. My position is exactly the same as it was when this stupid conversation began.
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Post by Andrew on Feb 1, 2014 7:24:32 GMT
Andrew: I understand the process totally. Oh really? If the orchard air is falling in temperature, heat spikes can not be created when water freezes in orchards unless there is supercooling. Anybody saying that is possible is an ignoramous.
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Post by icefisher on Feb 1, 2014 7:35:59 GMT
Andrew: I understand the process totally. Oh really? If the orchard air is falling in temperature, heat spikes can not be created when water freezes in orchards. Anybody saying that is possible is an ignoramous.
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Post by Andrew on Feb 1, 2014 9:18:03 GMT
This has got to be the most insanely stupid conversation of all time. NOBODY IS CLAIMING A WARMING UNLESS THE IRRIGATION STRATEGY WAS STARTED TOO LATE! If the crops are already 26F. Then the application of water could cause the atmosphere to warm whereby the latent heat of fusion maintains it above 28F but you might not save the crop! Versus If the groves are cooling due to the surface radiating energy to space there is no way in the world that the cooling of the water sprayed upon the plants can warm the plants more than the warmer water that is being sprayed upon the same plants. Once freezing begins less heat is available not more. But thanks for confirming the reason this thread keeps endlessly stupidly continuing! Or maybe Icefisher is now in a position to tell you why you are wrong! Andrew: Sorry that you are wrong. Empirical (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empirical) evidence shows you are wrong. You may think you understand the release of latent heat and the effect it has on an orchard or field, but you don't. Otherwise you wouldn't be arguing with me.
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Post by icefisher on Feb 1, 2014 15:59:37 GMT
If the groves are cooling due to the surface radiating energy to space there is no way in the world that the cooling of the water sprayed upon the plants can warm the plants more than the warmer water that is being sprayed upon the same plants. Once freezing begins less heat is available not more. But thanks for confirming the reason this thread keeps endlessly stupidly continuing! Or maybe Icefisher is now in a position to tell you why you are wrong! Andrew the question has never been if the rate of warming by the release of latent heat will exceed that of warmer water, since day one when you jumped into to this thread 5 months ago and claimed Numerouno was correct that latent heat can warm nothing, nada, zip . . . .all it can do is expand ice and chip rocks. A few weeks ago you went back an reendorsed this claim by claiming Numeruno had been completely vindicated. The rate of release of latent heat of freezing is variable depending upon a number of conditions, sublimation, conduction, convection, and radiation. But there is no question it is an external release of energy to the environment and completely capable of warming things and creating heat spikes under the right conditions. If you are going to make the stupid claim that peer reviewed science is wrong, like the papers referred to by the NSIDC, you need to expressly say what they are wrong about rather than simply standing on a soapbox like a sotted hobo claiming anybody who thinks differently than you is stupid. p.s. you have already admitted we are right. (e.g. "some other change would have to occur"). Since changes are always occurring heat spikes can be common.
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Post by Andrew on Feb 1, 2014 16:47:31 GMT
If the groves are cooling due to the surface radiating energy to space there is no way in the world that the cooling of the water sprayed upon the plants can warm the plants more than the warmer water that is being sprayed upon the same plants. Once freezing begins less heat is available not more. But thanks for confirming the reason this thread keeps endlessly stupidly continuing! Or maybe Icefisher is now in a position to tell you why you are wrong! Andrew the question has never been if the rate of warming by the release of latent heat will exceed that of warmer water, since day one when you jumped into to this thread 5 months ago and claimed Numerouno was correct that latent heat can warm nothing, nada, zip . . . .all it can do is expand ice and chip rocks. A few weeks ago you went back an reendorsed this claim by claiming Numeruno had been completely vindicated. The rate of release of latent heat of freezing is variable depending upon a number of conditions, sublimation, conduction, convection, and radiation. But there is no question it is an external release of energy to the environment and completely capable of warming things and creating heat spikes under the right conditions. If you are going to make the stupid claim that peer reviewed science is wrong, like the papers referred to by the NSIDC, you need to expressly say what they are wrong about rather than simply standing on a soapbox like a sotted hobo claiming anybody who thinks differently than you is stupid. p.s. you have already admitted we are right. (e.g. "some other change would have to occur"). Since changes are always occurring heat spikes can be common. Idiot. Sig is still saying I am wrong. And for the 50th time I never said the stupid things you claim I said. From day 2 of this insane discussion I have been objecting to your stupid characterisation of my position. Discussion with you is impossible. You just continually cheat and lie. Even pages of talk about the meaning of spontaneous has failed to stop your insane abuse that a chemistry graduate does not know what latent freeking heat is. You are just disgusting.
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Post by icefisher on Feb 1, 2014 16:56:53 GMT
Idiot. Sig is still saying I am wrong. And for the 50th time I never said the stupid things you claim I said. From day 2 of this insane discussion I have been objecting to your stupid characterisation of my position. So now you are denying supporting Numeruno's position and you are denying you supported the notion that latent energy is not released externally.
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Post by Andrew on Feb 1, 2014 17:14:37 GMT
Idiot. Sig is still saying I am wrong. And for the 50th time I never said the stupid things you claim I said. From day 2 of this insane discussion I have been objecting to your stupid characterisation of my position. So now you are denying supporting Numeruno's position and you are denying you supported the notion that latent energy is not released externally. You f**king moron, latent heat is an internal energy transfer that is undetectable to a thermometer other than the temp remains constant. Zero f**king heat is f**king released spontaneously. Additional cooling is required to remove the latent heat which can be falsely understood as a burst of energy. Whoever wrote the uni of Florida article is confused. NSIDC had it wrong I agree with all of that. You now keep claiming nobody had it wrong. f**k you dipshit
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Post by icefisher on Feb 1, 2014 18:10:49 GMT
You f**king moron, latent heat is an internal energy transfer that is undetectable to a thermometer other than the temp remains constant. Zero f**king heat is f**king released spontaneously. Additional cooling is required to remove the latent heat which can be falsely understood as a burst of energy. Whoever wrote the uni of Florida article is confused. NSIDC had it wrong I agree with all of that. You now keep claiming nobody had it wrong. f**k you dipshit Like I said like a besotted hobo standing on a soapbox calling everybody an idiot who does not agree with you and your position remains without a shred of evidence. As we know from the law of conservation of energy, energy cannot be created or destroyed. So the energy of latent heat does indeed rise out of freezing water spontaneously as it does not stay in the ice (like Numno claimed it was fully deployed in expanding ice and you supported him). Fact is Andrew it is released externally into the environment as we have been maintaining since day one. You have been struggling without any evidence to create energy queues whereby the energy of latent heat would stay in the water while other energy packets are released. You might have a logical case at a minimum if water froze from the bottom of the ocean first but you don't even have that. Your position is totally illogical as well as lacking any empirical evidence. So I understand fully why you choose to insult me. You have no argument.
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Post by Andrew on Feb 1, 2014 18:13:00 GMT
You f**king moron, latent heat is an internal energy transfer that is undetectable to a thermometer other than the temp remains constant. Zero f**king heat is f**king released spontaneously. Additional cooling is required to remove the latent heat which can be falsely understood as a burst of energy. Whoever wrote the uni of Florida article is confused. NSIDC had it wrong I agree with all of that. You now keep claiming nobody had it wrong. f**k you dipshit Like I said like a besotted hobo standing on a soapbox calling everybody an idiot who does not agree with you and your position remains without a shred of evidence. As we know from the law of conservation of energy, energy cannot be created or destroyed. So the energy of latent heat does indeed rise out of freezing water spontaneously as it does not stay in the ice (like Numno claimed it was fully deployed in expanding ice and you supported him). Fact is Andrew it is released externally into the environment as we have been maintaining since day one. You have been struggling without any evidence to create energy queues whereby the energy of latent heat would stay in the water while other energy packets are released. You might have a logical case at a minimum if water froze from the bottom of the ocean first but you don't even have that. Your position is totally illogical as well as lacking any empirical evidence. So I understand fully why you choose to insult me. You have no argument. At this point in time I am no longer sure if Numerouno used the word 'Spontaneous' correctly or not. Benchmarks for Science Literacy By American Association for the Advancement of Science books.google.fi/books?id=RyK1RZqxmBgC&lpg=PA337&ots=DV62w3RKUn&dq=Students%20often%20think%20objects%20cool%20down%20and%2For%20release%20heat%20spontaneously%2C%20that%20is%2C%20without%20being%20in%20contact%20with%20a%22%22&pg=PA357#v=onepage&q=Students%20often%20think%20objects%20cool%20down%20and/or%20release%20heat%20spontaneously,%20that%20is,%20without%20being%20in%20contact%20with%20a%22%22&f=false "For example, students often think objects cool down or release heat spontaneously — that is, without being in contact with a cooler object (Kesidou, 1990; Wiser, 1986)"
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Post by icefisher on Feb 1, 2014 19:56:31 GMT
For the nth time, you are using the word 'spontaneous' incorrectly. Numerouno used the word correctly. Zero heat is spontaneously released by water when it freezes. Whatever anybody else might think of that useage the meaning was totally clear to me. When water is cooled nothing spontaneously happens to cause heat to rise out of the water when it freezes, other than the perfectly ordinary heat that was arising from water before it began freezing. "other than the perfectly ordinary heat that was arising from water before it began freezing." ROTFLMAO! Nice exception there Andrew. But do you have a source to prove this ordinary heat that is arising from the freezing water is NOT identical to the energy being released via the latent heat of fusion? If not, then all you are doing is proving is you are a prick.
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Post by Andrew on Feb 1, 2014 20:04:59 GMT
For the nth time, you are using the word 'spontaneous' incorrectly. Numerouno used the word correctly. Zero heat is spontaneously released by water when it freezes. Whatever anybody else might think of that useage the meaning was totally clear to me. When water is cooled nothing spontaneously happens to cause heat to rise out of the water when it freezes, other than the perfectly ordinary heat that was arising from water before it began freezing. "other than the perfectly ordinary heat that was arising from water before it began freezing." ROTFLMAO! Nice exception there Andrew. But do you have a source to prove this ordinary heat that is arising from the freezing water is NOT identical to the energy being released via the latent heat of fusion? If not, then all you are doing is proving is you are a prick. There is no burst of energy. The meaning is obvious. If temperatures are falling in an orchard it is impossible for freezing to raise them. Sig disagrees. Why not kick the shit out of him till he agrees with you?
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Post by sigurdur on Feb 1, 2014 20:22:27 GMT
Andrew: The joules released at phase change..........
Think about it.......please. Observations show this.....
And to both you AND Icefisher.....enough of the damn name calling.
Keep it clean and refreshing.
This IS a board of thought.....put forth by Gentlemen.
IF you want to be a rogue....go somewhere like Think Progress or SS...They eat that crap up.
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Post by Andrew on Feb 1, 2014 20:33:35 GMT
Andrew: The joules released at phase change.......... Think about it.......please. Observations show this..... And to both you AND Icefisher.....enough of the damn name calling. Keep it clean and refreshing. This IS a board of thought.....put forth by Gentlemen. IF you want to be a rogue....go somewhere like Think Progress or SS...They eat that crap up. Sigh If the temps are falling already with more joules per second for the last hour, then fewer joules per second for the rest of time cannot make the orchard hotter. Hint. The standard scientific thing to do is to interact with my response to you. Ie rather than saying i am wrong latent heat this and latent heat that, farmers this and that etc, you should be looking at my text and telling me what you do not understand or do not agree with.
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