Post by Andrew on Aug 31, 2013 3:37:00 GMT
I just got a confused message from NSDIC information services that has apparently come directly from Mark Serreze.
Mark Serreze was copied into the correspondence i had with former NSDIC researcher Walt Meier who recently began working for the NASA cryospherics lab
-----------
[National Snow & Ice Data Center] Re: Re: These warm conditions are consistent with rapid ice growth?? (ticket #283XX)?
Sarah, Aug 30 12:52 (MDT):
Andrew:
Yes, I*** think I see your point. The wording in our post implies that the
rapid ice growth caused the warm temperatures, whereas in reality both
the rapid ice growth and the warm temperatures were due to the large
area of open water that needed to cool after absorbing a significant
amount of heat. I passed along your comments to others at NSIDC with
thoughts on how, in the future, we can better phrase issues to be
clearer and technically correct.A big challenge we face with Arctic Sea
Ice News and Analysis is trying to make the science both accessible to a
wide audience while maintaining the scientific rigor. There are times
when we miss the mark. We need people like you to keep us on our toes.
--
Mark C. Serreze
Director, National Snow and Ice Data Center
Campus Box 449
Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences
University of Colorado
Boulder CO 80309-0449
tel:303-492-XXXX
-----------------------------------------------------------------
After sleeping on it and finding the stupidity on this forum shows no signs of ending, I just fired this off to Serreze
-----------------------------------------------
Dear Mark
The NSIDC article is referencing a peer reviewed scientific paper that is also wrong. It is quite evident a very large number of otherwise educated people are totally mixed up on the concept of the latent heat of water.
The suggested text used by Walt Meier is muddled up. If ice is forming it is not a question of water that needed to cool down it is a question of water that has cooled down to the freezing point, while even so the atmosphere is anomalously warm.
It is irresponsible to leave the NSIDC article on line without modification. People are using the NSIDC resources to create educational resources that are wrong. PhD's working in the field of plant frost protection are genuinely believing the freezing process of water can warm the environment more than cold water can do because of the latent heat of fusion of water.
It cannot be acceptable to leave the NSIDC article as it is and then try harder in the future.
Please do the right thing and ensure that online articles available to the pubic and the scientific community are presented in a responsible manner so that the hard won efforts of many nameless people over generations of effort are preserved in an era that is becoming increasingly specialised, where one person can no longer be expected to know everything about even something as apparently simple as water and whatever gets presented on the internet tends to be seen as peer reviewed fact.
Yours sincerely
Andrew
---------------------------------
***A few days earlier I had received this from Walt Meier
---------------------------------
Hi Andrew,
Yes, I think I see your point. The wording implies that the rapid ice growth caused the warm temperatures, whereas in reality both the rapid ice growth and the warm temperatures were due to the large area of open water that needed to cool after absorbing a significant amount of heat. I passed along your comments to NSIDC with thoughts on how to better phrase the text to be clearer and technically correct.
walt
Mark Serreze was copied into the correspondence i had with former NSDIC researcher Walt Meier who recently began working for the NASA cryospherics lab
-----------
[National Snow & Ice Data Center] Re: Re: These warm conditions are consistent with rapid ice growth?? (ticket #283XX)?
Sarah, Aug 30 12:52 (MDT):
Andrew:
Yes, I*** think I see your point. The wording in our post implies that the
rapid ice growth caused the warm temperatures, whereas in reality both
the rapid ice growth and the warm temperatures were due to the large
area of open water that needed to cool after absorbing a significant
amount of heat. I passed along your comments to others at NSIDC with
thoughts on how, in the future, we can better phrase issues to be
clearer and technically correct.A big challenge we face with Arctic Sea
Ice News and Analysis is trying to make the science both accessible to a
wide audience while maintaining the scientific rigor. There are times
when we miss the mark. We need people like you to keep us on our toes.
--
Mark C. Serreze
Director, National Snow and Ice Data Center
Campus Box 449
Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences
University of Colorado
Boulder CO 80309-0449
tel:303-492-XXXX
-----------------------------------------------------------------
After sleeping on it and finding the stupidity on this forum shows no signs of ending, I just fired this off to Serreze
-----------------------------------------------
Dear Mark
The NSIDC article is referencing a peer reviewed scientific paper that is also wrong. It is quite evident a very large number of otherwise educated people are totally mixed up on the concept of the latent heat of water.
The suggested text used by Walt Meier is muddled up. If ice is forming it is not a question of water that needed to cool down it is a question of water that has cooled down to the freezing point, while even so the atmosphere is anomalously warm.
It is irresponsible to leave the NSIDC article on line without modification. People are using the NSIDC resources to create educational resources that are wrong. PhD's working in the field of plant frost protection are genuinely believing the freezing process of water can warm the environment more than cold water can do because of the latent heat of fusion of water.
It cannot be acceptable to leave the NSIDC article as it is and then try harder in the future.
Please do the right thing and ensure that online articles available to the pubic and the scientific community are presented in a responsible manner so that the hard won efforts of many nameless people over generations of effort are preserved in an era that is becoming increasingly specialised, where one person can no longer be expected to know everything about even something as apparently simple as water and whatever gets presented on the internet tends to be seen as peer reviewed fact.
Yours sincerely
Andrew
---------------------------------
***A few days earlier I had received this from Walt Meier
---------------------------------
Hi Andrew,
Yes, I think I see your point. The wording implies that the rapid ice growth caused the warm temperatures, whereas in reality both the rapid ice growth and the warm temperatures were due to the large area of open water that needed to cool after absorbing a significant amount of heat. I passed along your comments to NSIDC with thoughts on how to better phrase the text to be clearer and technically correct.
walt