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Post by infarction on Aug 3, 2015 2:14:53 GMT
If fossil fuels come out of the ground they will be burnt contributing to the CO2 concentrations in our atmosphere. The Paris Summit can debate this truth and should agree to a global cap with annual reductions in allowable extractable CO2 potential tonnage. Energy prices would rise promoting sustainable renewable energy investment and research. Renewable energy costs would decline over time as mass production of sustainable energy alternatives increases. Not signing this petition allows business as usual with the inevitable chemical changes to our ecosystem. Let the world know there is a solution and sign the petition at www.thepetitionsite.com/529/246/535/demand-the-paris-summit-agrees-to-cap-fossil-fuel-extraction/
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Post by glennkoks on Aug 3, 2015 2:57:14 GMT
infarction,
I don't think you are going to find much sympathy for your cause on the is forum. Perhaps your time would be better spent spreading your nonsense elsewhere?
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 3, 2015 16:00:20 GMT
It is amazing how many people are totally unaware how close plant life is to dying out - followed by all animals and humans - due to the low levels of CO2 in the atmosphere. It is the small increase to 400ppm that has led to a lot of the greening of the world. I don't mind people being Malthusians as long as they are first into the queue to be dispatched.
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Post by graywolf on Aug 3, 2015 16:09:16 GMT
Comedy Gold.......
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Post by missouriboy on Aug 3, 2015 16:59:19 GMT
A serious question for infarction. Anybody wish to bet on whether I get a serious answer?
Just exactly what are these alternate sources that can QUICKLY step in and provide the base-load requirements of our 'modern' energy-intensive civilization? Surely you don't believe, regardless of their long-term possibilities, that solar and wind are going to provide base-load capacity in the near future! Is it nuclear? Or what? David Archibald (and others) have suggested 'coal to liquid' and CNG (still carbon based) as a transportation solution, and thorium-burning molten salt reactors for the base-load requirements. I think that most would agree that ultimately we need to transition to something else ... but, in the best of all possible worlds, how long will we have to wait?
Or ... do we just cut it off? Via price or otherwise ... trash our current economy and lifestyle ... and hope for the best? Think Iraq or any number of third world countries where 6 to 12 hours of electricity is considered a very good day (either because capacity can't support the demand, or people can't afford the capacity). 'Just suck it up' won't be very popular.
And if your current climate-change paradigm is wrong??? Well, we don't even want to go there do we? Lynch mobs will not likely respond well to ... Oops! Guess we were wrong.
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fred
New Member
Posts: 48
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Post by fred on Aug 3, 2015 19:45:36 GMT
I'm no expert in the science of climate but what surprises me is the belief in alternative energy. Surely you just have to get a pen and paper and as they say do the maths. Then extrapolate this to the practicalities of building the necessary infrastructure to supply the enormous amount of energy needed today. It has taken many years to get to the small amount of ''green'' energy we have today, how do these people expect to get the vast amount of generating equipment needed within 10 - 15years. Do they all live in some sort of dream world??
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Post by nonentropic on Aug 3, 2015 20:41:05 GMT
Why the need for subsidy when its such a wonderful alternative.
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Post by Ratty on Aug 4, 2015 0:59:36 GMT
[ Snip ] Do they all live in some sort of dream world?? Yes.
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Post by walnut on Aug 4, 2015 2:27:58 GMT
< $50 oil and cheap coal and nat gas makes alternative technologies about as viable as mining gold on the moon.
When will the ninth grade science class be done with their little experiments? The adults need to be back in charge again soon.
Remember a couple of years ago when the intellectuals were lecturing us about "peak oil"? How about some accountability!?
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Post by glennkoks on Aug 4, 2015 4:34:00 GMT
I'm no expert in the science of climate but what surprises me is the belief in alternative energy. Surely you just have to get a pen and paper and as they say do the maths. Then extrapolate this to the practicalities of building the necessary infrastructure to supply the enormous amount of energy needed today. It has taken many years to get to the small amount of ''green'' energy we have today, how do these people expect to get the vast amount of generating equipment needed within 10 - 15years. Do they all live in some sort of dream world?? Fred, I am a firm believer in alternative energy and I also subscribe to the theory of Peak Oil. With that being said alternative energy will not gain ground until it can compete on a fair and equal market with fossil fuels. It's damn hard to beat the free market. As for Peak Oil. It makes sense, but it's super hard to account for technological advances. Horizontal drilling in concert with multi stage fracking is a game changer. It allows us to produce formations that were otherwise non-producable a few years ago. And there are more advances on the horizon. But in the long, long term energy prices will only continue to rise.
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fred
New Member
Posts: 48
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Post by fred on Aug 4, 2015 8:20:19 GMT
I'm no expert in the science of climate but what surprises me is the belief in alternative energy. Surely you just have to get a pen and paper and as they say do the maths. Then extrapolate this to the practicalities of building the necessary infrastructure to supply the enormous amount of energy needed today. It has taken many years to get to the small amount of ''green'' energy we have today, how do these people expect to get the vast amount of generating equipment needed within 10 - 15years. Do they all live in some sort of dream world?? Fred, I am a firm believer in alternative energy and I also subscribe to the theory of Peak Oil. With that being said alternative energy will not gain ground until it can compete on a fair and equal market with fossil fuels. It's damn hard to beat the free market. As for Peak Oil. It makes sense, but it's super hard to account for technological advances. Horizontal drilling in concert with multi stage fracking is a game changer. It allows us to produce formations that were otherwise non-producable a few years ago. And there are more advances on the horizon. But in the long, long term energy prices will only continue to rise. I live in southern england and we have wind turbines sprouting up and solar farms sprouting up all over the place. This is at great cost to the enviroment as well as the public pocket in subsidies. When you do the maths they supply a minute fraction of the energy needed. The companies which supply them also always over estimate the output of these projects. All logic seems to have gone out of the argument. You would not invent a system like we are getting today where you close down viable power stations because somebody came up with an idea that CO2 (in theory) could cause a rise in temperature. And this all based upon suspect data and suspect model. Models which never seem to predict weather that is outside the window.
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Post by Ratty on Aug 4, 2015 11:35:16 GMT
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Post by acidohm on Aug 4, 2015 12:21:52 GMT
Ratty....you wouldn't be saying that our current energy policies don't stand up to credible investigation and only exist because the facts are shielded by the establishment. ...are you....
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Post by walnut on Aug 4, 2015 13:43:01 GMT
I would love it if they could come up with something new that actually works. I would be thrilled. They give subsidies to the green companies and make life miserable for the coal companies already, I would say that it is already not a level playing field in favor of the (often) fraudulent green startups. I think that if and when they find something worthwhile, it will make its own way through the marketplace with investors and customers. I'm no expert in the science of climate but what surprises me is the belief in alternative energy. Surely you just have to get a pen and paper and as they say do the maths. Then extrapolate this to the practicalities of building the necessary infrastructure to supply the enormous amount of energy needed today. It has taken many years to get to the small amount of ''green'' energy we have today, how do these people expect to get the vast amount of generating equipment needed within 10 - 15years. Do they all live in some sort of dream world?? Fred, I am a firm believer in alternative energy and I also subscribe to the theory of Peak Oil. With that being said alternative energy will not gain ground until it can compete on a fair and equal market with fossil fuels. It's damn hard to beat the free market. As for Peak Oil. It makes sense, but it's super hard to account for technological advances. Horizontal drilling in concert with multi stage fracking is a game changer. It allows us to produce formations that were otherwise non-producable a few years ago. And there are more advances on the horizon. But in the long, long term energy prices will only continue to rise.
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 4, 2015 15:49:33 GMT
I'm no expert in the science of climate but what surprises me is the belief in alternative energy. Surely you just have to get a pen and paper and as they say do the maths. Then extrapolate this to the practicalities of building the necessary infrastructure to supply the enormous amount of energy needed today. It has taken many years to get to the small amount of ''green'' energy we have today, how do these people expect to get the vast amount of generating equipment needed within 10 - 15years. Do they all live in some sort of dream world?? The same 'post normal science' taught in all schools today by teachers who were also taught it, tells the children that wind and solar energy is 'free'. Therefore, as it is free it will be cheaper won't it? At that point they have exhausted their mental capacity and curiosity and go back to watching the latest vapid pop stars or TV 'celebrities'. These people all vote and will happily vote for something they know is free so won't cost as much. Base load and dispatchable don't mean anything to these people or the marketing men working hard to justify the subsidy farming. These people are the Eloi being used as voting fodder by the Morlock progressives. We will really have a problem if Theo and others are correct about the cold.
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