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Post by acidohm on Nov 23, 2017 18:38:52 GMT
Ok, vibrational and rotational kinetic energy describe a molecule is solid/liquid form Translational kinetic energy describes a molecule in gaseous form
In gaseous form, each molecule has alot more energy, but the mole mass is much less.
1 mole is the amount of molecules in a sample, obviously 1cm3 of water has much greater, but lower energy molecules then vapour[ebr] So, if you have 1 billion water molecules containing x amount of energy in 1cm3, the same volumn of water vapour will have many times less molecules to contain the same energy.
Gas laws dictate temp and pressure, change one, the other responds predictably, ie, increase pressure temp goes up.
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Post by Ratty on Nov 23, 2017 22:48:25 GMT
Presumably is not an answer I get the idea that as you get to a certain level even physicists start hand-waving Some of them then meet in a darkened room and decide on the answer: Consensus!
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Post by nautonnier on Nov 25, 2017 12:59:58 GMT
From the we can precisely measure the CO2 sources and sinks department.... "Claim: plant respiration of CO2 into atmosphere underestimated by 30%"wattsupwiththat.com/2017/11/18/claim-plant-respiration-of-co2-into-atmosphere-underestimated-by-30/Consider a mature tree in a rain forest - once it has stopped growing that tree respires and each cell needs to take in oxygen and give out carbon dioxide. Some of that carbon dioxide will cycle round and be used in photosynthesis but the balance has moved to more carbon dioxide being generated than being consumed. This does not need models or changes in temperature it is logical botany.
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Post by duwayne on Nov 25, 2017 17:16:07 GMT
From the we can precisely measure the CO2 sources and sinks department.... "Claim: plant respiration of CO2 into atmosphere underestimated by 30%"wattsupwiththat.com/2017/11/18/claim-plant-respiration-of-co2-into-atmosphere-underestimated-by-30/Consider a mature tree in a rain forest - once it has stopped growing that tree respires and each cell needs to take in oxygen and give out carbon dioxide. Some of that carbon dioxide will cycle round and be used in photosynthesis but the balance has moved to more carbon dioxide being generated than being consumed. This does not need models or changes in temperature it is logical botany. Nautonnier, do you believe a mature healthy rain forest is a net producer of CO2 over a multiyear period? If so is there a stipulation such as drought conditions?
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Post by missouriboy on Nov 25, 2017 17:30:16 GMT
Precipitation By Month
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Post by sigurdur on Nov 25, 2017 17:42:49 GMT
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Post by acidohm on Nov 25, 2017 18:08:48 GMT
Precipitation By Month
Cool!
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Post by nautonnier on Nov 25, 2017 19:29:02 GMT
From the we can precisely measure the CO2 sources and sinks department.... "Claim: plant respiration of CO2 into atmosphere underestimated by 30%"wattsupwiththat.com/2017/11/18/claim-plant-respiration-of-co2-into-atmosphere-underestimated-by-30/Consider a mature tree in a rain forest - once it has stopped growing that tree respires and each cell needs to take in oxygen and give out carbon dioxide. Some of that carbon dioxide will cycle round and be used in photosynthesis but the balance has moved to more carbon dioxide being generated than being consumed. This does not need models or changes in temperature it is logical botany. Nautonnier, do you believe a mature healthy rain forest is a net producer of CO2 over a multiyear period? If so is there a stipulation such as drought conditions? A rain forest is an entire ecosystem that has all sorts of transient plants as well as longer lived trees. A single full grown mature tree may well become a net CO2 source. The various other plants living and dying as 'annual' plants may well be CO2 neutral. Between those are the faster growing longer lived plants which possibly when they die lock CO2 into the ecosystem as will the mature trees when eventually they die - which may take centuries. I do not believe the lungs of the planet emotional claims. It would be nice to see someone actually run experiments to determine the net input output and the effect of drought, which may reduce CO2 respiration as it reduces transpiration and plant health. I would suspect that a healthy stable forest say of the type on the west coast with trees centuries old may well in normal temperate conditions be a net producer of CO2. They also of course produce O2 as a byproduct of their photosynthesis which consumes CO2 but once mature they are not 'laying down' stores of fixed Carbon any more. I must also add that more CO2 is good for the ecosystems as it promotes growth in plants. If the measures claimed by climate 'scientists' are correct at ~200ppm in the depths of the Little Ice Age then the biosphere was very close to a major extinction event as that is the level at which plants start dying.
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Post by nautonnier on Nov 25, 2017 19:45:27 GMT
If you read this about C3 and C4 plants you will see that C4 plants evolved to deal with low levels of CO 2 and harsh conditions. So those conditions existed. Once the levels of CO 2 drop much below 200ppm C3 plants start to fail. Below ~150ppm CO 2 all plants start to die. www.quora.com/Whats-the-difference-between-C3-C4-and-CAM-plants It is worth skimming the detailed organic chemistry if it is not your thing - and reading the explanation of the evolution of C4 plants.
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Post by sigurdur on Nov 25, 2017 19:46:56 GMT
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Post by nautonnier on Nov 25, 2017 20:09:23 GMT
Amazing that they appear to be claiming that there _is_ a causal feedback of GHG causing temperature rise it was just incorrect use of statistics..... And think that explains delays in the rise of GHG of several centuries after temperature rises. I believe that they have incorrect metrics for gullibility in their readers.
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Post by Ratty on Nov 26, 2017 0:36:40 GMT
Refreshing? Wing still works at the Smithsonian, in an office that uses an old fossil leaf exhibit display as a coffee table. He adds, “This is how science is supposed to work. We disagreed. We argued. We discussed. We kept each other honest. But we didn’t let the disagreement stay personal, and the result was we each improved what we were doing. We both have enough sense to respect the other’s opinion. That makes it easy to be friends, too.”
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Post by acidohm on Nov 26, 2017 7:33:13 GMT
Refreshing? Wing still works at the Smithsonian, in an office that uses an old fossil leaf exhibit display as a coffee table. He adds, “This is how science is supposed to work. We disagreed. We argued. We discussed. We kept each other honest. But we didn’t let the disagreement stay personal, and the result was we each improved what we were doing. We both have enough sense to respect the other’s opinion. That makes it easy to be friends, too.” The problem is the inate sense every human has that in some way the world is going to end. I think it's instinct, for 2.5 million years we hunter gathered and watched our back every single day, if we had an inate sense that everything is fine, how many fewer would have survived those 2.5 million years? Later this sense of foreboding and our awakening minds, allowed the conjuring of mystical, unseeable, all powerful beings to somehow rationalise this sense. Now we understand so much not much space is left for such mysticism, yet the forebode remains.....co2 fills a void in many person's instinct/intelligence subconscious battle. This is why discussion against the idea become so heated (pun!!) Your not simply addressing some scientific fact, your messing with their subconscious turmoil.
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Post by Ratty on Nov 26, 2017 10:39:22 GMT
Refreshing? Wing still works at the Smithsonian, in an office that uses an old fossil leaf exhibit display as a coffee table. He adds, “This is how science is supposed to work. We disagreed. We argued. We discussed. We kept each other honest. But we didn’t let the disagreement stay personal, and the result was we each improved what we were doing. We both have enough sense to respect the other’s opinion. That makes it easy to be friends, too.” The problem is the inate sense every human has that in some way the world is going to end. I think it's instinct, for 2.5 million years we hunter gathered and watched our back every single day, if we had an inate sense that everything is fine, how many fewer would have survived those 2.5 million years? Later this sense of foreboding and our awakening minds, allowed the conjuring of mystical, unseeable, all powerful beings to somehow rationalise this sense. Now we understand so much not much space is left for such mysticism, yet the forebode remains.....co2 fills a void in many person's instinct/intelligence subconscious battle. This is why discussion against the idea become so heated ( pun!!) Your not simply addressing some scientific fact, your messing with their subconscious turmoil. You have a long way to go to topple Missouri ......
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Post by blustnmtn on Nov 26, 2017 12:47:59 GMT
Refreshing? Wing still works at the Smithsonian, in an office that uses an old fossil leaf exhibit display as a coffee table. He adds, “This is how science is supposed to work. We disagreed. We argued. We discussed. We kept each other honest. But we didn’t let the disagreement stay personal, and the result was we each improved what we were doing. We both have enough sense to respect the other’s opinion. That makes it easy to be friends, too.” The problem is the inate sense every human has that in some way the world is going to end. I think it's instinct, for 2.5 million years we hunter gathered and watched our back every single day, if we had an inate sense that everything is fine, how many fewer would have survived those 2.5 million years? Later this sense of foreboding and our awakening minds, allowed the conjuring of mystical, unseeable, all powerful beings to somehow rationalise this sense. Now we understand so much not much space is left for such mysticism, yet the forebode remains.....co2 fills a void in many person's instinct/intelligence subconscious battle. This is why discussion against the idea become so heated (pun!!) Your not simply addressing some scientific fact, your messing with their subconscious turmoil. A quote often credited to Churchill goes something like: “A lie travels around the world while truth gets her boots on”. Humans are naturally very subjective while objectivity requires constant discipline and critical thinking to maintain. We live in a time when lies are everywhere instantaneously while truth is universally suppressed because it will hurt profits and thinking is No longer stylish. quoteinvestigator.com/2014/07/13/truth/
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