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Post by IB DaMann on Mar 21, 2019 11:59:54 GMT
I was reading the Wikipedia article on Teleconnections but I couldn't find any science thereof. The article discusses the many scientists who contributed to Teleconnection theory but gives no references to the state of the modern teleconnection science. I would appreciate someone putting the basics here in this thread. Thanks.
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Post by nautonnier on Mar 21, 2019 12:05:12 GMT
I was reading the Wikipedia article on Teleconnections but I couldn't find any science thereof. The article discusses the many scientists who contributed to Teleconnection theory but gives no references to the state of the modern teleconnection science. I would appreciate someone putting the basics here in this thread. Thanks. There is no science of teleconnection. As far as I can tell: teleconnection == unexplained correlation And as everyone (except climate 'scientists' and medical researchers) knows: correlation <> causation |
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Post by Ratty on Mar 21, 2019 12:13:06 GMT
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Post by nautonnier on Mar 21, 2019 12:23:02 GMT
If I was a the reviewer I would reject that paper. "Teleconnections, such as El Niño, are climatic relationships over long distances that provide predictability of the climate system at interannual to decadal timeframes." "When I use a word," said Humpty Dumpty in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I want it to mean neither more nor less." |
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Post by IB DaMann on Mar 21, 2019 12:26:31 GMT
There is no science of teleconnection. As far as I can tell: teleconnection == unexplained correlation And as everyone (except climate 'scientists' and medical researchers) knows: correlation <> causation I hear what you're saying ... but I have this Wikipedia article here that specifically says that it's science, atmospheric science to be specific. Now, unless you are going to give me that conspiracy theory argument that Wikipedia is run by manipulative Marxists who have hijacked Wikipedia for political purposes, I think we should focus on finding that atmospheric science, wouldn't you agree? |
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Post by missouriboy on Mar 21, 2019 17:45:04 GMT
There is no science of teleconnection. As far as I can tell: teleconnection == unexplained correlation And as everyone (except climate 'scientists' and medical researchers) knows: correlation <> causation I hear what you're saying ... but I have this Wikipedia article here that specifically says that it's science, atmospheric science to be specific. Now, unless you are going to give me that conspiracy theory argument that Wikipedia is run by manipulative Marxists who have hijacked Wikipedia for political purposes, I think we should focus on finding that atmospheric science, wouldn't you agree? The science of the 15th century said the World was flat. Now the science says it's not. It also says many other things that may teleconnect back to flat. I agree that we should find it, and am so happy that you volunteered. |
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Post by IB DaMann on Mar 21, 2019 17:59:31 GMT
The science of the 15th century said the World was flat. Now the science says it's not. It also says many other things that may teleconnect back to flat. I agree that we should find it, and am so happy that you volunteered. Well therein lies the problem. I couldn't find any. That's why I created this thread looking for help. |
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Post by missouriboy on Mar 21, 2019 18:36:47 GMT
The science of the 15th century said the World was flat. Now the science says it's not. It also says many other things that may teleconnect back to flat. I agree that we should find it, and am so happy that you volunteered. Well therein lies the problem. I couldn't find any. That's why I created this thread looking for help. My list has one more item. If memory serves, Judith Curry had a paper or two on the topic not many moons back. The "stadium wave" comes to mind. judithcurry.com/2013/10/10/the-stadium-wave/ |
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Post by nautonnier on Mar 21, 2019 18:48:06 GMT
"What is a “Teleconnection”? Why are Teleconnections Important in Climate Science?
Originally posted on August 25, 2005.
Teleconnections are defined by the American Meteorological Society as:
“1. A linkage between weather changes occurring in widely separated regions of the globe. 2. A significant positive or negative correlation in the fluctuations of a field at widely separated points. Most commonly applied to variability on monthly and longer timescales, the name refers to the fact that such correlations suggest that information is propagating between the distant points through the atmosphere.”"pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2008/11/18/what-is-a-teleconnection-why-are-teleconnections-important-in-climate-science/It is the climate equivalent of: 
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Post by IB DaMann on Mar 21, 2019 19:34:25 GMT
missouriboy, I have to thank you. This is the absolute treasure trove of gibber-babble preached in the name of "plausability." The short answer is an emphatic "Yes! We absolutely need an entry for this!" ___________________________________________ Stadium Wave: noun A Global Warming edict, written in an unintelligible tongue speculated to be a Latin derivative, issued by Oracle from the Climate Change Holy Sea known as the "IPCC" which both prophecized and explains the current multi-decade haitus of Global Warming mythology. The Stadium Wave Prophecy: " A hypothesized low-frequency climate signal propagating across the Northern Hemisphere through a network of synchronized climate indices was identified in previous analyses of instrumental and proxy data. The tempo of signal propagation is rationalized in terms of the multidecadal component of Atlantic Ocean variability – the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. Through multivariate statistical analysis of an expanded database, we further investigate this hypothesized signal to elucidate propagation dynamics. The Eurasian Arctic Shelf-Sea Region, where sea ice is uniquely exposed to open ocean in the Northern Hemisphere, emerges as a strong contender for generating and sustaining propagation of the hemispheric signal. Ocean-ice-atmosphere coupling spawns a sequence of positive and negative feedbacks that convey persistence and quasi-oscillatory features to the signal. Further stabilizing the system are anomalies of co-varying Pacific-centered atmospheric circulations. Indirectly related to dynamics in the Eurasian Arctic, these anomalies appear to negatively feed back onto the Atlantic‘s freshwater balance. Earth’s rotational rate and other proxies encode traces of this signal as it makes its way across the Northern Hemisphere." Scientists are already working on translating this beautiful and mysterious language. |
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Post by acidohm on Mar 21, 2019 20:41:11 GMT
I was reading the Wikipedia article on Teleconnections but I couldn't find any science thereof. The article discusses the many scientists who contributed to Teleconnection theory but gives no references to the state of the modern teleconnection science. I would appreciate someone putting the basics here in this thread. Thanks.
The problem as i see it is the butterfly effect. Enso conditions are known to favour certain weather patterns in Europe for example. QBO is known to in its easterly phase to favour cooler weather. Solar may increase blocking etc etc. However despite all these known things, subtle variations in sst in the Atlantic can turn all the above around and produce the opposite of expectations. There is absolutely no way a 'teleconnection' is a definitive solution to anything, before one gets into multiple such things acting in conjunction or against each other. Its chaotic beyond imagination out there, i actually dont think it possible to resolve the equations involved.... |
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Post by Ratty on Mar 21, 2019 21:39:40 GMT
There is no science of teleconnection. As far as I can tell: teleconnection == unexplained correlation And as everyone (except climate 'scientists' and medical researchers) knows: correlation <> causation I hear what you're saying ... but I have this Wikipedia article here that specifically says that it's science, atmospheric science to be specific. Now, unless you are going to give me that conspiracy theory argument that Wikipedia is run by manipulative Marxists who have hijacked Wikipedia for political purposes, I think we should focus on finding that atmospheric science, wouldn't you agree? Wikipedia is run by manipulative Marxists who have hijacked Wikipedia for political purposes. |
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Post by missouriboy on Mar 21, 2019 22:24:54 GMT
I hear what you're saying ... but I have this Wikipedia article here that specifically says that it's science, atmospheric science to be specific. Now, unless you are going to give me that conspiracy theory argument that Wikipedia is run by manipulative Marxists who have hijacked Wikipedia for political purposes, I think we should focus on finding that atmospheric science, wouldn't you agree? Wikipedia is run by manipulative Marxists who have hijacked Wikipedia for political purposes. Hear, hear Mr Speaker. It's indeed a pinko plot. With a heavy shade of green.  But some topics are OK ... it there's no wampum attached. |
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Post by missouriboy on Mar 21, 2019 22:32:22 GMT
I was reading the Wikipedia article on Teleconnections but I couldn't find any science thereof. The article discusses the many scientists who contributed to Teleconnection theory but gives no references to the state of the modern teleconnection science. I would appreciate someone putting the basics here in this thread. Thanks.
The problem as i see it is the butterfly effect. Enso conditions are known to favour certain weather patterns in Europe for example. QBO is known to in its easterly phase to favour cooler weather. Solar may increase blocking etc etc. However despite all these known things, subtle variations in sst in the Atlantic can turn all the above around and produce the opposite of expectations. There is absolutely no way a 'teleconnection' is a definitive solution to anything, before one gets into multiple such things acting in conjunction or against each other. Its chaotic beyond imagination out there, i actually dont think it possible to resolve the equations involved.... The only equations they are really concerned about are those that get deposited. Now that is a teleconnection. |
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But some topics are OK ... it there's no wampum attached.