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Post by slh1234 on Jun 30, 2009 14:09:14 GMT
You are really thick stevie. I just told you that my game was to bully you into making dumb emotional replies, and you have immediately done it again. This is like slapping a defenseless baby. I am beginning to feel a little guilty. Broadly speaking, if a minimum wage employee can feed clothe and house themselves to an acceptable standard, pay for health insurance, and are unlikely to slip into poverty or be a drain on the state when they retire, then given that you're in a first-world country, that's fine by me.You are incredibly naive stevie. And quite obviously, you have never provided a job to anyone. Broadly speaking, what the hell is an acceptable standard? We have a lot of very fat poor people here. Do the 300 pounders deserve more money for food, clothing, health care, and living space than the skinny ones? You forgot about transportation and entertainment. What if a minimum wage worker has eight kids and a couple of wives? Does he get ten times as much pay as the single childless guy? What about the lazy drug addled clown who is half as productive as his fellow workers? Ah pay him, it's not his fault. What about the poor people who don't even have a minimum wage job stevie-don't you care about them? Well, let's mandate a 30 hour work week and then everybody will have a job. But could we compete in the World economy anymore? No problem, we will revive the Depression Era Smoot-Hawley Trade War Law, but we will win this time. And all of the increased costs of our humane employment policies will come out of the profits that the slimy polluting capitalists have been sucking out of the downtrodden poor forever. Hey, let's simplify the policy so that the prols can understand it: From each according to his/her/transgender abilities, to each according to his/her/transgender needs. Why do I have to have provided a job to someone to have a say in this. I can see when my taxes have been used to subsidise the low pay of tight-fisted successful businesses whose success has continued despite introduction of a minimum wage. A minimum wage couple should be able to rent a one bed flat in a cheapish area of most towns. The minimum wage is one amount that doesn't cater for average hamburger/crystal meth consumption. I don't believe in a low minimum working week or inventing fake jobs for unemployed telephone sanitisors. Maybe you don't have to have created a job to have a say, but it certainly changes your perspective in this argument. From someone who has tried 3 times unsuccessfully to run a business (ventures which lasted between 1 year and 7 years), I will naturally have a different perspective on this. My wife has been successful with running her business - she is obviously better than I am at it. First of all, a minimum wage worker is NOT a skilled worker of any stripe. Even most unskilled workers are not minimum wage workers. Most times, a minimum wage worker is a high school student working for the summer, or for a few hours after school. They're not going to rent an apartment in any part of town - cheapish or expensivish. To get a more stable unskilled or semi-skilled employee, an employer will have to pay considerably more than minimum wage because that person really does need to rent or buy a house in the cheapish part of town. Turnover is expensive even wtih unskilled or semi-skilled labor. But one of the most interesting things to me was walking through the shop and hearing conversations about how "you know they're making money" when we were so far in the red I wasn't sure how I was going to make payroll that cycle. It's interesting to me how those businesspeople are always viewed as being greedy. Those workers who expect that businessperson to share the wealth with them even though they have taken no risk, Will not accept any risk, have developed no skills at running the business, have not even taken advantage of the opportunities to learn a skill that the business has given them, etc. somehow always think they are entitled to more of what the business earns (or what they think it is earning). That is also greed. Sometimes, those pepople fall prey to that "they're telling you what you're worth" argument, but that is completely untrue. The business pays a market value for the labor. What I make is entirely dependent on what the business can sell my product (skill) for - it is a market value of my skills. Now that I don't have to try to run a business, I like that arrangement. But the point is that creating a job most definitely will change a person's perspective on the topic.
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Post by steve on Jun 30, 2009 16:56:51 GMT
In the UK, people on or close to the minimum wage include shop checkout and shelf-stacker, cleaner, delivery driver, restaurant staff and security staff. In our service-oriented economy, that's too many jobs for students and school dropouts.
I have employed people directly before to do property developments, and it hurts to see someone having a sneaky paid-for cigarette break, but my main reason for believing there is a role for the minimum wage is that I know a number of potential layabouts who ran out of excuses to live on the dole once they could make reasonable money, and who are now (almost) valued members of society. Despite initial resistence, it's now fully accepted as a good thing by all the political parties and most businesses here.
Anyway, that's way off May temperatures, so I'll leave it there.
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Post by tacoman25 on Jul 1, 2009 0:55:42 GMT
June will be cooler than May for UAH. Most likely in the -.03 to .01 range.
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Post by poitsplace on Jul 1, 2009 6:50:41 GMT
June will be cooler than May for UAH. Most likely in the -.03 to .01 range. While UAH/RSS have different baselines...it's going to get extremely difficult to push the concept of warming if two of the major global temperature records are showing negative numbers.
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Post by sigurdur on Jul 1, 2009 12:59:53 GMT
Right I guess you are suggesting that in the past month millions of AC units got installed next to temperature sensors, or something equally ridiculous. At least think about your arguments before you make them. That way you won't make silly arguments. We are talking about a divergance in one single month between GISTEMP and UAH. The obvious answer for this is that SST have increased significantly in the past 3 months and this hasn't yet affected UAH due to lag time, but immediately affects GISTEMP. Yes we can expect UAH and RSS to jump up significantly in the next few months. I haven't had time to examine where the heat is, but from overall reading I know where the cool is. At least the top 1/3 of the NH is wayyyyy below what some call average temps. I also know the SH is below average temps, at least in Aussie, NZ, Argentina, Antarctica. And this is not a recent occurance. Can there be enough area that is 5-6F above those means to not have a dramatic cooling in June worldwide?
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Post by woodstove on Jul 1, 2009 13:47:32 GMT
Right I guess you are suggesting that in the past month millions of AC units got installed next to temperature sensors, or something equally ridiculous. At least think about your arguments before you make them. That way you won't make silly arguments. We are talking about a divergance in one single month between GISTEMP and UAH. The obvious answer for this is that SST have increased significantly in the past 3 months and this hasn't yet affected UAH due to lag time, but immediately affects GISTEMP. Yes we can expect UAH and RSS to jump up significantly in the next few months. I haven't had time to examine where the heat is, but from overall reading I know where the cool is. At least the top 1/3 of the NH is wayyyyy below what some call average temps. I also know the SH is below average temps, at least in Aussie, NZ, Argentina, Antarctica. And this is not a recent occurance. Can there be enough area that is 5-6F above those means to not have a dramatic cooling in June worldwide? Hi Sigurdur. From what I have seen, your sense of northern latitude temperatures of late is correct, at least in terms of northern U.S., Canada, and Scandinavia. I don't actually know about Siberia. Alaska has been warm. In terms of the Southern Hemisphere, my frequent checks on Wunderground of Johannesburg, Sydney, Christchurch, and Vostok (an admittedly limited limited sample) would suggest that the SH has not been cooler than average for the past month.
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Post by sigurdur on Jul 2, 2009 0:20:06 GMT
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Post by sigurdur on Jul 2, 2009 0:47:07 GMT
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Post by sigurdur on Jul 2, 2009 0:53:26 GMT
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Post by tacoman25 on Jul 2, 2009 22:35:55 GMT
GISS maps are frequently inaccurate. Most of ND was 4-6 degrees below the 1971-00 average in May. But if you look at the GISS map with that baseline, it shows that area as normal or maybe slightly cooler than normal.
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Post by icefisher on Jul 2, 2009 23:34:49 GMT
GISS maps are frequently inaccurate. Most of ND was 4-6 degrees below the 1971-00 average in May. But if you look at the GISS map with that baseline, it shows that area as normal or maybe slightly cooler than normal. Thats because they are correcting your temperatures with a station in St Louis.
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Post by tucker on Jul 2, 2009 23:56:19 GMT
GISS maps are frequently inaccurate. Most of ND was 4-6 degrees below the 1971-00 average in May. But if you look at the GISS map with that baseline, it shows that area as normal or maybe slightly cooler than normal. Thats because they are correcting your temperatures with a station in St Louis. This would be more funny if it weren't so true!
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Post by sigurdur on Jul 3, 2009 0:19:01 GMT
Thats because they are correcting your temperatures with a station in St Louis. This would be more funny if it weren't so true! And they actually publish this data. HOW could they nottttt know it is just wrong? And that big grey area over Canada, with the site saying there are no data stations........is just a flat out lie! I call on SoCold and Steve to show me how the smoothing is working on this one. And I am not doing this with no respect. There is a huge huge error here, and if legislation is going to be passed based on this type of error......then we are in deeeeeeeeep deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep do do.
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Post by sigurdur on Jul 3, 2009 0:21:05 GMT
This would be more funny if it weren't so true! And they actually publish this data. HOW could they nottttt know it is just wrong? And that big grey area over Canada, with the site saying there are no data stations........is just a flat out lie! I call on SoCold and Steve to show me how the smoothing is working on this one. And I am not doing this with no respect. There is a huge huge error here, and if legislation is going to be passed based on this type of error......then we are in deeeeeeeeep deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep do do. And if they are so wrong in the cool areas, how wrong are they in the warm areas? Do we need to just throw hadcut, noaa,nasa, etc out the window and look at our own thermometers to know what the truth is?
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